Land conservation and horses - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 25 Old 11-23-2011, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gunslinger View Post
It seems to me, there is an agenda, that would limit access to land by any thing other than hikers.

No one loves the forest more than me, but I realize, that for people to support it, it has to be useful to them.

Lots of land closed under the guise of "protecting" it.

Access for all.....ATV's and motor cycles too.

You got it wrong. They don't want to close it down to all but hikers. They want to close it down to all but a select few hikers. A few areas are like this and there is a push to make more and more land this way.
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post #12 of 25 Old 11-24-2011, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
You got it wrong. They don't want to close it down to all but hikers. They want to close it down to all but a select few hikers. A few areas are like this and there is a push to make more and more land this way.
Yes, I agree.

The southern Appalachians were absolutely raped by the end of the 19th century, or at least by 1920. Almost every tree gone.

It amazes me how well the forest has recovered. I guess an argument can be made that the eco system has been forever changed because of it, but for the most part the forest appears to be in pretty good shape.

While I would agree that there needs to be areas to remain natural, I would disagree with the way some are managed.

Frankly, if I can't use it, then what good is it to me? This sounds a little selfish, but I'm of the opinion, the only way to preserve it is to allow the people to enjoy it.
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post #13 of 25 Old 11-24-2011, 09:50 AM
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while riding around one day, I noticed a long line of small state symbols nailed to a trees every 100 yards or so, Wow looks like public land near my house, I go a bit farther, there is a little boat ramp and parking area, and a logging road going back in the woods along the creek. Its only a few minutes from my house so with the help of google maps I realize this is a 3 mile long stretch of land along the river, then a right turn and another 3 mile trail back, only about 100 yards wide but basically a 6 mile loop might be a nice exersise run,,,, Soooooo then I see the 3 foot high list of donts, turns out it is somekinda of bat sanctuary and basically you can do nothing but walk around, probably barefoot, no pictures no horses, no bikes,, so the place sits there deserted, other than the boat launch area,
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post #14 of 25 Old 11-24-2011, 10:02 AM
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My apologies KarlieJaye, I think you're here to help, but current over regulation of public land seems to cast most do-gooders as the problem, not the solution.

As I've posted before, the streets of hell will surely be paved with the best of intentions.

If you don't mind, please tell me how permanent damage is defined?
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post #15 of 25 Old 11-24-2011, 10:28 AM
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WHilst there are undoubtedly issues relating to keeping horses as the sole grazers on a area of land. relatively few of us have any say or control in how the land is managed. Only those who either own or who have a formal field lease agreement have any say in how the land is maintained.

In our area of south Wales, the number of sheep grazing the land is falling as is the number of cattle either for milk or beef. However the number of horses to be seen grazing appears to be increasing. Whether sheep are good for land management is perhaps open to question. It seems that increasingly cows are being kept in 'factories' and some poor animals are lucky to see grass.

But one fact is ever present - the grass has to be either cut or eaten - otherwise the land will quicly revert to scrub pasture and within a decade or two it will become woodland and there is less and less economic use of the timber. Hereabout grazing land sells for up to 10,000 say $16,000 per acre - and a horse needs an acre to live off.

Horses may be hard on pastureland - but the effect can be minimized by rotation and mechanical treatment. But it is a matter from the land owners to come to terms with - all we horse riders do is to play with the horses and pay the bills.
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post #16 of 25 Old 11-24-2011, 11:59 AM
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Starting off with "I cant stand horses" on a horse forum isnt gonna win yo many friends, and many wil stop listenign to anything you have to say no matter how valid your opinions.
Let me try to re write your first post. Saying roughly the same thing,
"I grew up around horses and really enjoy them. I am really interesting helping horse owners with some land management techiniques that can save them money on hay, cut down on flys and mud, maybe control some runoff and in the process help out some of the area wildlife and head off some of the over regulation that may be coming."

Try starting like that next time.
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post #17 of 25 Old 11-24-2011, 07:51 PM
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I think we do need to leave places for other animals to live. I don't think of it as land being useless, I think of it as a long-term rotation program. When the land we're using is no longer any good, our children will be able to use the preserved land while the old land recovers. It's a cycle.


But in the same breath wild horses would destroy the land just as much as domestic ones. People tend to think that only humans harm the environment but it's not true - bears often destroy berry bushes in the act of eating from them, and beavers can cut significant swaths through forests. And there are worse things you can do with land than graze horses on it.

What really bothers me is when people cut down trees on their property and then just burn the wood. There is no such thing as waste wood anymore - even sawdust can be used in construction. Send it somewhere where it will be used.
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post #18 of 25 Old 11-27-2011, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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I apologize for making anyone angry and I seem to have been completely misunderstood by all but a select few (which underscores my fears about the horse community).

I apologize for being a realist and trying to help fellow horse enthusiasts make improvements before large laws come down the pipe.

I apologize for voicing an opinion which is kept hush-hush in the horse community that I know.

Hand built ceramic equine sculptures by yours truly:
http://karliejaye.wix.com/kjwsculptor
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post #19 of 25 Old 11-28-2011, 10:43 AM
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Karlie, You do not need to apologise to this community for expressing an honestly held and informed opinion. Indeed, your thoughts may not meet with the approval of all of the members but most of those people who disagree with your thinking will either post a response or say nothing. Invariably they will keep within their own acquired beliefs.

By all means try to educate us as to the best use of land, but if your thoughts are confrontational then you must expect a counter response. At such times
you should stand your ground and make your point. Most of us on the Forum seek to debate issues which face the horse riding fratenity so as to seek a solution to long term problems or at best a compromise.

It is well known that horses steel shod hooves destroy the sward of pasture.
It is also known that horses are selective eaters.
Indeed, horses are poor grazers of grassland.

But we horse owners have taken on the 24/7 responsibility for the well being of a large quadraped which lives on grassland. We have to make choices.

The grassland of my own horse is managed as best as we can. We pick up the dung and we try not to permit the horse to overgraze the pasture. We re-seed and we remove weeds. We harrow, we roll. we cut.

But my horse needs access to grass for much of the year. My aim is to give my mare as much access as I can to sweet grass whilst bearing in mind my horse's susceptibility to laminitis and over weight.

Personally I and my friends will listen to any advice as to how best to feed and graze my horse in a sustainable manner. But I won't deny unduly my horse for the benefit of a butterfly or in accordance with a philosophy which seeks to preserve a notional status quo for the benefit of generations of humans as yet to come. They may never arrive for reasons disassociated with my horse.

But the fundamental issue is that most of us do not have the right to manage the land, since we are not the owner of the acreage. Mostly we horse owners merely lease a stable and the right for our 'pet' horse to graze.

I sense a hidden agenda in this thread. Perhaps you might care to get to the fundamental issues involved and which gave cause for you to post the starter for this thread. We foreigners are not aware of much of what goes on in the US. Please explain more clearly the point you are trying to make.

Britain is a green and pleasant island of trees, farmland and grassland, where horses cannot as yet be blamed for long term environmental issues.
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post #20 of 25 Old 11-28-2011, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karliejaye View Post
I apologize for making anyone angry and I seem to have been completely misunderstood by all but a select few (which underscores my fears about the horse community).

I apologize for being a realist and trying to help fellow horse enthusiasts make improvements before large laws come down the pipe.

I apologize for voicing an opinion which is kept hush-hush in the horse community that I know.

I guess the problem is large laws have already come down the pipe.

I think we all want to be good stewards of the land, but we also want more places to ride, not less, and less regulation, not more.

It only makes sense to manage the land as best one can, but to say a horse hurts the land, and then see entire hill tops removed in West Virginia by large mining operations, forest raped and destroyed by clear cutting and.... well, sorry, but I'm not willing to buy into the whole horses are bad for the land philosophy.

I don't understand the hush-hush comment, can you elaborate more on that please?

No need to apologize to me as you certainly haven't made me angry. You have every right to your opinion and as this is a public (to a degree) forum, every right to voice it. I am in no way offended by it but rather, disagree with the agenda rather than the practice.

Frankly, I think we could learn many things from you.
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