Am I the only one that does this? - Page 2

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Am I the only one that does this?

This is a discussion on Am I the only one that does this? within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Brett monroe horse trainer
  • What bits does brett monroe use on his horses

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    01-05-2013, 04:54 PM
Green Broke
Originally Posted by MN Tigerstripes    
I can judge and will if I see someone riding in a wire tie down or other such nonsense.
Well I'm glad to hear that you are better than Brett Monroe, who is currently the 5th highest money earner in the last decade and has been in the top 20 of futurity riders in the last 15 years, riding countless different horses to championships. What's the last futurity or big barrel bash you've won on several different horses?

(And if you don't know, Brett Monroe was on the most recent cover of Barrel Horse News using a wire noseband tie down, winning the 2012 BFA World Championship Barrel Racing Futurity. Which is where this whole discussion is stemming from.)

You don't know his horse. You don't know if he usually runs in a leather tie down, but wanted something stronger "just in case" for competition. You don't know the horse ever cut themselves with the wire. You don't know the circumstances.

No, I don't agree that he uses one either. If I needed a tie down, I'd use a leather one. But I won't judge him. I am in no position to. I don't know the circumstances, and I am not anywhere near his caliber status. Clearly he knows what he's doing. He's been successful for decades, as have his horses.
SorrelHorse likes this.
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    01-05-2013, 04:58 PM
I'm not saying I use one, but I am not going to judge based on seeing a pi tyre of someone using one. Why use a rope halter with knots when you can use a flat nylon one?
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    01-05-2013, 05:09 PM
Did I say I was better than him??? Please point that out for me. I wasn't aware that looking at someone's actions and saying that you agree or disagree is automatically saying you're better than they are at what they're doing. It's simply saying I don't agree with using a wire tie down. Period.

I don't give a rats hind end if he needed something stronger "just in case" or if he uses one all the time. Either way I don't like it and I am entitled to my opinion and have the ability to say "I don't believe that's ok" and that I don't agree with the practice. He might be a great rider and his horses might be successful, but in my opinion a wire tie down isn't ok. My sister is more experienced raising children than I am (I don't have any) but you can bet that I'll judge her actions and behavior when I see her doing something that is detrimental to her kids.

We could transpose this argument to soring TWH if you'd like, maybe that will help to illustrate my point? I haven't won XYZ National title of the TWH show industry, so who I am to say that it's wrong to sore and blister the horses... Since winning is the standard by which we decide that someone has a right to stand up and say "that's not ok" I should just shut my mouth, right?

Everyone judges people by their behavior and people should be held accountable for their actions, I don't care where you are at in the level of your sport. Of course, that doesn't matter if winning is everything to you.
    01-05-2013, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by OutOfTheLoop    
I'm not saying I use one, but I am not going to judge based on seeing a pi tyre of someone using one. Why use a rope halter with knots when you can use a flat nylon one?
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Rope halters can cause "pressure" without causing pain. Same reasoning behind using different types of bits. Again, I don't have a problem with tack that is used stimulate different pressure points in order to create a more fine tuned response. I have a problem with tack that is designed to cause pain.

I highly doubt a wire tie down causes pressure without causing pain. Have you ever grabbed wire and pulled it with your bare hands? Doesn't feel very good. We all know how sensitive a horses nose is right? Much more sensitive than our hands. So stands to reason that a horse moving at incredibly high speeds and making very athletic turns is probably putting a decent amount of pressure on that piece of wire throughout the race.

If a tie down is designed to allow a horse to make a faster, tighter turn by giving them something to counter balance on, why are you giving them something to brace on that is going to hurt them?
smrobs and Dressage10135 like this.
    01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
I complete agree with Tiger. It is no mystery that in the history of man working with horses that these animals have experienced all kinds of treatment from us. We have only learned and moved away from the old "cowboy" way of "breaking" horses (I'm sure there are still some out there that use this but it is not widely supported). If no one ever spoke up we might be doing the same thing today.

When working with animals it is absolutely imperative that people speak up when something is being done to animal that is not humane. If you "win" all the time by doing something that is clearly not humane or sportsmanlike, I am NOT impressed and I don't think anyone else should be either.

Look at horse racing. Sure some might win by using clearly unethical practices at the horses expense, but if they win, who cares? NO way. This is not okay.

When it comes to making money off animals it can get pretty dirty. Humans want instant results and that is a bad combination with animals. When people start doing anything it takes to win, the animal loses. Drugging, all kinds of tack that forces horses into a position (or just look like they are), getting frustrated and hitting the animal, etc. is not okay.

I was not happy that BarrelHorse used that picture on the cover. I think a lot of people saw this picture and we wondering about this wire tie down. If you are going to use questionable gear then I think you should expect to be questioned. I don't care who Brett Monroe is or how much he wins. Not only does the horse have a wire tie down on, it's in a Futurity. If anything that shows me that that Futurities might be encouraging this "do anything to win" and "rush a young horse" kind of attitude and I see that as a problem.

We all want to win and do well. But it is important not to sit back and assume because someone wins that they know everything and should not be questioned. That is a grave mistake in any situation, but especially when dealing with training animals.

I'd love to see some more horsemanship come into this sport. I think a great person to look to who has won (even more than this Brett Monroe fellow) is Charmayne James. In fact, she has in article in the very same magazine that Brett is on the cover on, titled "Investing the Time".

The last lines of the article by Charmayne reads as this:

"You've got to be driven to put in the time that is necessary in order to improve, but don't become obsessed with barrel racing to the point that you put excessive pressure on yourself or your horses to win. You need to balance your lifestyle so you are not trying too hard to win at all costs".

It's worth reading.
    01-05-2013, 06:17 PM
Originally Posted by BarrelRacer23    
That they wouldn't be at the top if they weren't doing something right. Even if you don't agree with everything they do.
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Reminds me of that 60 Minutes expose where the (in)famous gaited horse trainer was caught putting acid on a horses legs and then wrapping it with plastic. The horse was in so much pain, it screamed and threw itself on the ground. He turned his ugly face to the world and said, I don't know what's the problem - they win don't they! Disgusting!!!
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smrobs and MN Tigerstripes like this.
    01-05-2013, 06:23 PM
I will tell you what I have personally witnessed while boarding at the facility of a World Class trainer. Horses bred, broke and pushed out like it was an assembly line. Could never understand why until I learned their dirty little secret. They were continually replacing horses that had to be euthanized due to spiral breaks. Every time I see those covers I wonder how many horses it took them to get there.
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    01-05-2013, 06:39 PM
We're not talking about Gaited Horses, it's Barrel Racing. It's like comparing apples to oranges. I am not going to critique Someone's riding style if their at the top. It's not my place. I don't like wire tie downs or any tie down, but I'm not going to get worked up about someone using one. A tie down used correctly is not going to cause much pain. In my experience horses don't brace on the tie down they avoid it and don't get strung out.
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    01-05-2013, 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by BarrelRacer23    
That they wouldn't be at the top if they weren't doing something right. Even if you don't agree with everything they do.
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Mmmmmm, so by this admission, Rollkur, rapping, etc etc etc. should be non issue.

... right?
MN Tigerstripes and xJumperx like this.
    01-05-2013, 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
Mmmmmm, so by this admission, Rollkur, rapping, etc etc etc. should be non issue.

... right?
apples to oranges again. We are discussing barrel racing, in the barrel racing forum. Rolkur, wrapping, bitting up, tying heads up, soring, dehydrating, ect. Are not typical practices of the barrel racing world.
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