Critique little mare I've started (video)
   

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Critique little mare I've started (video)

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  • Long vid man mare
  • Why my barrel horse so choppy around barrels

 
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    02-20-2013, 11:51 PM
  #1
Weanling
Critique little mare I've started (video)

This was her first time actually doing anything faster than a slow lope. I like to start them very slow, but it still amazes me how their own personal style eventually creeps through! This is a cool little horse but her second barrel at this speed she seems to turn it better when I let her work on her own, she loves her job! She's really ratey, too much for my liking, so if it looks like I'm throwing myself up over her neck, I probably was lol, if she feels my weight so much as acting like I want her to whoa, she's going to stop in her tracks. I like her a lot, she's such a brat and if I get in her way she'll let me know... By stopping and acting grumpy, she's hilarious.

She really turns second best if I just let her run at it and snap back but I'm going to continue with how I started her and keep her arcing around them in practice because that may be best in the long run.

Oh and this is not my horse, I wish the little diva was but that's part of starting them, some you just fall in love with lol!

Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRsDWbyHloM&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Any helpful words are very welcomed. You learn something every day!
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    02-21-2013, 09:06 AM
  #2
Weanling
Subbing as I want to know what others have to say.

I did not do barrels for long, nor was I very competitive. But it looks like to me you need a slightly wider pocket at the approach.

I like how she is following her nose around the barrels though.
I want to see if any of the pros agree.
     
    02-21-2013, 09:38 AM
  #3
Green Broke
Overall, not bad!

She is rather choppy in her turns. Does your saddle fit well? Has she ever been checked by an equine chiropractor?

Plus you are running on bad ground. Especially the first barrel: It's just pasture grass!! She could be choppy because she's got nothing to dig into. I would not run her at this speed at home. You are really putting her in danger of slipping and falling and getting hurt. Haul to an arena if you need to, to give her speed practice.

Your reins are much too long. I would shorten them.

Your pocket size on the first barrel seemed okay, but she did cut in too soon with you on the second barrel. Use your inside leg to push her over. Make sure you visualize a point on the ground where you want her to reach. Do NOT look at the barrel itself. On the second barrel you did lean inward a little bit when you got thrown forward. Make sure you are bracing yourself by holding onto the horn with your outside hand so you stay out of her way.

Third barrel, I'd also push her just a tad bit deeper before you turn. If you watch yourself on the video, you're letting up on her (causing her to rate) way too soon, before you get to the barrel. And again, shorten your reins. You can really see on that third barrel that you hand dang near came behind your own hip.
     
    02-21-2013, 01:07 PM
  #4
Weanling
Thanks! I've always trained with long reins I'm not sure how it got to be like that but nevertheless I DO need to fix it.

The owner just got the fence put up there at his arena and it hasn't been messed with since but that's the fastest I've let her go there. I haven't and won't push her yet because she isn't ready, that was just first time anything faster than slow lope.

I think the habit of throwing myself up on them stemss from my barrel horse and how his turn style is but it's not an excuse, makes for cool barrel race pictures though lol!

I'll get more videos of her, she's a little more difficult to train than some of the others but she's a quick learner and loves to work. This video I'd been working her for about 30 days, but that includes teaching and re teaching a lot of basic stuff. I'll continue to work with her on basic things, improve her side passing, leg yields and that, because she's not ready for that speed honestly... That was the point of that run, she isn't as responsive to leg cues as I'd like so a lot more work on that.

I like them like my gelding, I touch him with my leg and he moves in or out in that stride. I guess it's just my preference honestly, I like touchy, catty, super responsive horses. But that's why I'm doing so much work off of barrels now, because I believe it'll make her that much better when we get back on them! :)
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    02-21-2013, 03:54 PM
  #5
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
Thanks! I've always trained with long reins I'm not sure how it got to be like that but nevertheless I DO need to fix it.
I personally train from day one in the way that it's going to be when the horse is finished. That's just my philosphy on being consistent for the horse. So my reins are competition length, even if we are just walking the pattern. My body between the barrels is in an up and running position, even if we are just walking. That way, when the day comes that we do add speed, my body language is perfectly familiar to my horse, and they know what I am asking, because I have done the exact same thing all along.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
The owner just got the fence put up there at his arena and it hasn't been messed with since but that's the fastest I've let her go there. I haven't and won't push her yet because she isn't ready, that was just first time anything faster than slow lope.
I would not even be loping the pattern in that "arena". It's just not worth the injury. There's no ground at all for loping.

And personal preference for me, if I am working on the barrel pattern, my horse has got his protective sport boots on all 4 legs. But sport boots are personal preference, so to each his own.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
I think the habit of throwing myself up on them stemss from my barrel horse and how his turn style is but it's not an excuse, makes for cool barrel race pictures though lol!
You really shouldn't be throwing yourself forward in any turning style. Dena Kirkpatrick has been doing a short series during Women's Pro Rodeo Today with a rider whose horse falls frequently because the rider always leans forward too much. When you throw yourself forward, that causes the riders weight to be on the horse's front end. This does not keep the front end free, and can make the horse prone to tripping, slipping, or falling.

Plus, if you are leaning forward in the turn, you cannot keep your weight in your outside stirrup like you should. It's basic science and centripetal force --> When an object is traveling in a circular motion at speed, it can travel faster with the weight to the outside.

It's definitely really hard to change muscle memory though!! Just really make sure you always give your horse a solid RATE cue with your body to transition from speed between the barrels, to getting ready to turn. Always drop that outside rein so that you can hold onto your saddle horn, and wedge your outside elbow against your outside hip, holding yourself in place. And of course, keep most of your weight in the outside stirrup. Practice, practice, practice at slow speeds (and in your mind!) to change that muscle memory in the turn.
     
    02-21-2013, 10:12 PM
  #6
Weanling
I do agree with leaning forward, bad habit! But when I'm training I do like my reins long, actually I usually train in split reins since most of the work I do with horses people get me to train is not even around barrels, I focus a lot on steady hands because the worst thing to me is watching a rider with their arms flailing around and bumping their horse each stride, so I find it easier (for me) to train and work in longer reins, and try to keep out of each horses way unless I absolutely need to. Now at a run it's a different story (this particular horse is far from competition) I run in a different set up. I understand the philosophy of keeping everything consistent but it just works best for me that way. I TYPICALLY train each horse in a smooth and practice a few times with a different bit depending on if they need more rate/ more bend and the fastest speeds, but I like every horse to be able to do everything in just a plain old Snaffle with little contact from me.

And absolutely agreed on the ground, I just work them wherever that particular horses owner wants me to, and we both agree no more fast anything until it's got proper footing. Although I don't see much harm in slow loping them there, they gallop around the pasture they can poke along on grass. Only when it's dry though, very dry. When I'm loping them it's usually always big wide circles. Now with proper footing I'll try and make them work harder.

I'm not much of a spurrer or whipper, or even kicker, like when I get her to take off it's all weight, when I get her to switch leads it's all weight, I use my legs for a lot but not really forward movement unless it's a squeeze. I'll have to get a video of a horse I've finished so you can see.

Completely agree on the leaning forward thing though, if it's not raining tomorrow or Saturday I'll get a video of one of the other horses. The only other one I have uploaded is a little paint mare they wanted me to train and in that certain arena the local shows are held so it's like a micro barrel pattern lol.

Thank you for the helpful advice!
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    02-21-2013, 11:26 PM
  #7
Weanling
I found an older video. This old man (only 15 but I still call him old man) had been enjoying 2 years on pasture with kids climbing on him due to a leg injury turned cellulitis, the vet cleared him for barrels after 3 months once the cellulitis was gone but too many other horses to work he got put on the back burner. We took it slow (this fella can fly) but I forgot how he liked to run hence hitting the first barrel. And yes I'm screaming and laughing because when I felt that turn I knew he still had it!

Feel free to pick him (and me, apparently :) ) apart as well.

I don't care what any opinion on this is but my personal experience some horses have their own style, it could be completely backwards from what all the books and seminars say, but checks and buckles don't lie. I start every horse out correctly, and at a slow easy lope, this guy turns and runs by the book, but when you're actually running him... You aim two feet off that barrel and run straight at it, you get in his way, try to rate him, try to arc him, he'll hit it like he did here. But you run him at it, give a little bump right when his shoulder passes that barrel and he will turn it perfect every time.

Point of that lecture is I've learned from training, working, riding and starting countless barrel horses, each one is different and when you add turbo speed, you set each one up differently according to their style and how they travel best. In my opinion anyways lol.
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ETA: the link to the darn video lol!!

Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40LkL_Sf2fc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
     
    02-22-2013, 12:26 AM
  #8
Weanling
Oh and I do have to very respectfully disagree with your statement that you have your body in an up and running position even if your just walking. I train every horse to speed up/ slow down based on my body position and where my weight is. If I pointed any of them between the barrels and got into a running position, they will run. I guess it's from also working reining and cutting horses. That's just how I train and ride. If I'm relaxed, my horse is relaxed, if I shift my weight back, they slow, if I shift father back and push my legs forward I want their butt to hit the ground and stop. And as you can see with the little mare in training, I lean slightly forward and she gets in a lope. Personal preference I guess! Lol
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    02-22-2013, 10:58 AM
  #9
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
But when I'm training I do like my reins long, actually I usually train in split reins since most of the work I do with horses people get me to train is not even around barrels,
I should have clarified that I ride in split reins the majority of the time as well ... unless I am working on barrels or poles. Then I use competition length barrel reins. I'll even pack my barrel reins with me (and my sport boots) on a trail ride/conditioning ride, if I plan to work on the barrels later on in the ride where I have my patterns set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    

Although I don't see much harm in slow loping them there, they gallop around the pasture they can poke along on grass.
But the difference is out in the pasture they are not supporting the weight of a rider and they are turning when/where they decide. When you force them to turn a barrel on bad ground at a lope with a the weight of a rider, that's where you will increase your risk of a slip and fall.

To each his own, but if that was my horse or a client's horse I was training, I would not be loping the pattern on that ground. JMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
Oh and I do have to very respectfully disagree with your statement that you have your body in an up and running position even if your just walking. I train every horse to speed up/ slow down based on my body position and where my weight is. If I pointed any of them between the barrels and got into a running position, they will run. I guess it's from also working reining and cutting horses. That's just how I train and ride. If I'm relaxed, my horse is relaxed, if I shift my weight back, they slow, if I shift father back and push my legs forward I want their butt to hit the ground and stop. And as you can see with the little mare in training, I lean slightly forward and she gets in a lope. Personal preference I guess! Lol
Agree to disagree.

I like my horses to be "in tune" to me as well. However, I don't want them loping off anytime I lean forward. I have a very strict combination of cues that I give my horses for any given maneauvar. So that when they get that complete set of cues, they know exactly what to do. So if I do want to cue for a right lead, I will very slightly lean forward in addition to bumping my left leg backward behind the cinch, in addition to making a kissing sound. If I don't give all those cues together, then I don't want them loping off. They're always going to get a combination cue from me that includes weight, legs, verbal, seat, (and reins if called for). I don't want them reacting off of only one cue. Because let's face it; I'm not a perfect rider. So if I make a mistake and get off balance, my horse isn't going to mis-read that for something it's not.

So in my barrel practice, when I lean my weight forward in-between the barrels to simulate running, I am obviously not giving them the leg cues or the verbal cues that would actually correspond with "Get Moving!!!". I find that leaving forward slightly, really emphasizes my rate cue when we get to the barrel, so they really learn quickly that when I sit and rate, it means turn now. Red is picking up that great. He's really surprising me because there's times I think he's not totally paying attention (he the total example of an ADHD horse), but then I sit, and then we turn!!
     
    02-22-2013, 12:46 PM
  #10
Weanling
Oh that's great! Each rider finds what works best for them, my rate cue is to sit down, you can see in that second video how off I was on the first barrel I totally messed old man up on that one! Lol!
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