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Horse falling at barrel TWICE

This is a discussion on Horse falling at barrel TWICE within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Falling barrel racing videos
  • My barrel horse wants to turn the barrel twice

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    01-21-2014, 05:48 PM
  #31
Weanling
I just don't see that at all, she may be holding her head to the outside a little but by no means is that CRANKING. We can just agree to disagree on that one. I'll get some more videos asap, I'm objective and if I saw cranking I think I would get on to myself crazy for it.

I am confident, but never said I could do no wrong. I guess that's the problem with reading you can't hear inflection or tone.
     
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    01-21-2014, 06:30 PM
  #32
Green Broke
I think you do need to take a chill pill and go relax for the night. It's never easy to put yourself up for a critique, because you aren't always going to like what you hear. I'm not being condescending. You asked for help and I am telling you what I see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
As for "cranking her head to the outside" I did not do that either. There is a difference between holding contact on your outside rein, or pulling their head to the outside. When I hear "cranking head to outside" I think of what dena is doing in the run in the second video you posted.
I apologize for using the word "cranking" one time in one of my responses. You are getting hung up on the word, and not the point that I am trying to get across.

The difference in Dena's video is that she is riding a finished horse at full blast speed. You are not. Your horse is in barrel training. You've added a little bit of speed and it's not working.

Can you honestly say to me that you horse has her body in a good position when she goes into the barrel turn? (as far as the videos you've shown us) So far you've been seeming to coming up with some sort of excuse to most everything I've said.

Her nose is OUT, her ribcage is in. And on the one video we actually got to see all 3 barrels (your first video) and not a GoPro, she swing her hip out in the turn on the 3rd barrel and doesn't use it properly. She needs work on her body position.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
I am not even hardly holding it either and DEFINITELY not cranking her head to the outside at all. She was going to dive at it and I was keeping her up. The frame you posted is when she started dropping her shoulder, if I was "cranking" she wouldn't be looking at the barrel and her head would be pulled to the outside. I was simply trying to keep her between my hands.
And the point I am trying to make is that you need to be proactive BEFORE she drops a shoulder. It's too late if you try to correct it after it happens. If you keep bend in her body, keep her shoulder elevated, and keep her correct from the start of your turn to the end, she can't drop a shoulder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
If anything touches her it's the topside of the shank and even then it's not hard.
Spurs aside, the way you kick at her during a run is making her irritated by the way she swishes her tail (or assuming there is some pain somewhere causing the tail swishing). It might work better with her to try a different approach to drive her forward, than whammy on her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
I think our farrier is trying to correct some minor imbalance in her fronts.
I'd like to know more details about this. When is a horse is off somewhere, it can certainly create other issues like frequently pulled shoes ... or falling.

Have you had her examined by an equine lameness vet?

Has she had xrays?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
I just don't see that at all, she may be holding her head to the outside a little but by no means is that CRANKING.
Whatever you want to call it, cranking or otherwise, you are indeed holding her nose to the outside when you reach your pocket, instead of having good bend in her body. She's still out of position, no matter how you want to describe it.

Granted, Martha is a freak of nature and most horses don't run like her, but she is the epitome of BEND.



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    01-21-2014, 09:08 PM
  #33
Weanling
She has flat feet in the front and they put plain shoes on her, doesn't look like it would give much traction. Our farrier said the angle of her fronts are too long and he wants to stand her up a bit more. Maybe I'm wrong about which leg went out first maybe she did fall on the front but sure looked like the hind to me. Owner called him earlier and he said his plan is to pull the shoes and trim again and leave her barefoot. I just don't want to fall again for her and my sake.

No check by lameness specialist yet or chiropractor but I think I will go ahead and take care of that soon just to make sure. Maybe figure out if she's off or not.

Definitely getting the arena in order when owner gets back Thursday.
     
    01-22-2014, 12:10 AM
  #34
Started
I'd definitely have a chiro check her those slips could have caused her to be out. And I agree with beau the position of your horse is wrong. You need to go back to walking and trotting only and work on tipping her nose inward, and proper rib cage flexion. Also check you hand position with the reins are you dropping them causing her to drop her shoulder? It's fairly common problem I see. Good luck with her don't get in a hurry it's just not time to run yet.
     
    01-22-2014, 06:02 AM
  #35
Started
My bf was teaching me to run barrels. He says the best way to keep a horse OFF the barrel is to get your horse's nose past it BEFORE you turn. His tb gets way over excited and its how he keeps the old man from plowing them over lol. He also says to start out WIDE in the turns. You can always bring the horse in closer, but its harder to bring them out.

That was my 2 cents and I agree with everything beau159.
If my BFs dad can be yanking on his horse's mouth, flopping around like a sack of flour and STILL run full speed, on a slightly too small horse, and WIN and NOT have a horse fall (EVER) there is something amiss with yours. Ether with the horse physically or with her being aloud to turn to close to the barrel too soon in her training.
My mare is as graceful as a 3 legged bull and a overcrowded china shop, but she can run half decent. Considering I have run her a handful of times just playing. If I feel her getting wonky I slow her down.
     
    01-22-2014, 10:44 AM
  #36
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
She has flat feet in the front and they put plain shoes on her, doesn't look like it would give much traction.
Now is this your horse, or the ranch's horse?

How long have you been working with this mare?

Did you express to the farrier that she was being worked on the barrels?

I guess I feel like that her shoes should have been considered well before you put her on barrels, instead of now questioning it after she's fallen two times. If she's in a plain flat shoe, and not a rim shoe, that may very well be why she's slipping. From the video you posted where she fell at the 2nd barrel, I can't tell which foot she slipped on because you cannot see her feet in the video.

I always make sure my farrier knows what I am doing with my horses so that he can trim/shoe accordingly. For example: I had to have my horse's front feet in a 2 degree wedge shoe for soundness reasons diagnosed by the lameness vet. So he put on a rimmed wedge (not a flat wedge) so that my horse would still have traction for barrels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
Our farrier said the angle of her fronts are too long and he wants to stand her up a bit more.
Now of course I have not seen your horse's feet up close and in person, but I kind of wonder why your farrier put front shoes on in the first place? If the toe is long and the heels underrun, all it takes is proper trimming over the course of time, to gradually fix the angles. You don't really need a shoe to fix that, unless she has something else going on besides that.

Granted, maybe this mare would do well with shoes for the purpose of traction (a rim shoe, or a Razr shoe, for examples). I have my gelding shoed in the back for that purpose; he slips less with rims.

However, it's also possible to consider that if the angle of her hooves are off, she may have an increased break-over point and that could be affecting the way she moves.

Just some thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriatChick772    
No check by lameness specialist yet or chiropractor but I think I will go ahead and take care of that soon just to make sure. Maybe figure out if she's off or not.
I think that would be a very smart decision. Even if she comes up clean, then at least you've checked.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KigerQueen    
My bf was teaching me to run barrels. He says the best way to keep a horse OFF the barrel is to get your horse's nose past it BEFORE you turn.
I personally say that you want your KNEE at the barrel (at a minimum), or have your knee past the barrel before you start the turn.

But I suppose it would amount to the same by having the nose past the barrel ... versus your knee at the barrel. Tomatoes, tomaatoes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KigerQueen    
He also says to start out WIDE in the turns. You can always bring the horse in closer, but its harder to bring them out.
Absolutely. It's much easier to correct a horse and move them in tighter, than it is to make them give you more room in the turn.

Plus, when you are starting out slow loping with a horse, you want to give them MORE room in the pocket around the turn. Once you speed it up, you'll find that all your extra room is gone. That turn really tightens up when you add speed.
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    01-22-2014, 11:02 AM
  #37
Green Broke
Not to add more fuel to the fire, but I was snooping on your YouTube channel and there was one thing that wasn't super noticeable in the videos you posted, but now that I look back again I can see it.

You are turning her a split second TOO SOON on her barrels.





Now I still think it would be a very good idea to have her checked by a lameness vet and chiro, as I don't like how she's moving her hind end in any of the videos. But it could be in part that you are asking her to turn a little bit too soon. Which may be why she drops her shoulder. Which may be why she braces.

This particular 2nd barrel in that video she also did not finish 100%. Which kinda makes sense though, if you asked for the turn too soon, she's going to have to "make up" for it somewhere.

She's slow loping in that video and I see some of the same problems. At the risk of being redundant, I do think you need to stay at a slow lope for now and get her using her body better, and get your timing and bend down pat on the turns. She's not ready for speed.


I think I agree with you that it is her hind that slipped out from underneath from her. At least that's what it looks like here in this video.

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    01-22-2014, 04:00 PM
  #38
Weanling
The mare is owned by the ranch, she came here pretty well started and she had shoes on the front when she arrived. She's been here maybe 3 months? Can't really recall. She was loping a decent pattern and had been on them I'd say 90 days if I remember correctly. She started showing these bracy tendencies just recently. Which looking back could very well be exacerbated by the bit I am working her in. I do see turning a hair too soon you definitely saw that correctly. The best way to put it is this mare almost seems to try to do things on her own. She wants to speed up and she wants to turn so I'm doing some exercises to get her listening to me again and waiting on me. My timing is off with her for sure. Like I said it's kind of hard to adjust to 16 different horses sometimes. Especially going from one to the other. I will get videos of her working this evening.

As for the farrier he's the best around here I haven't talked to him personally but he knows she's working barrels. She's due for a trim and shoes off any day now as well.
     
    01-24-2014, 11:05 AM
  #39
Weanling
1st off....I'm not writing novels like Beau. I don't have the time lol.

The horse is hurting. PERIOD.

If you take your job seriously then I'd invest in a tractor. It's hard for horses to learn to use themselves properly when they have to safety up on hard ground like that. If they weren't sore when you got them...A few weeks on that ground they will be. Now, I'm not a ground freak as I prefer different terrains and conditions to work them on as I think it helps teach them to use themselves regardless of circumstance BUT...you're a "trainer" and clients don't want sore horses returned to them. Buy a tractor or borrow one. I'm sure the ranch you work for has one.

This horse is sore. Hocks or stifles or both. I've seen countless horses with these symptoms and it was either bone chips...arthritis (injections needed) or sticking stifles. As a the trainer you should express this to your client.

1 of my horses was falling....it was his hocks. He's a tail Swisher 24/7 but I knew something was off. Come to find out he wasn't injected by the previous owner with what I thought and it had worn off months ago. Had him injected...boom. Back to seasoned ammy rodeo horse runs.

Don't let your ego get in the way of being teachable. We ALL have things we can work on. Pride only hinders progression in the equine world.
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    01-24-2014, 11:35 AM
  #40
Yearling
I can't quite put my finger on it.. but something just looks off in the stifle area. The way she is attempting to carry herself, mainly. Could you try positing a video of her walking/ jogging to and from the camera? Even just doing a simple lameness test like that on your own terms might help you pinpoint the problem, but I think on top of tweaking your riding habits to fit her style better, there is an underlying physical issue here.
     

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