Proud cut barrel horse
 
 

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Proud cut barrel horse

This is a discussion on Proud cut barrel horse within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Does the epididymis produce testosterone in horses?
  • Proud cut stallion mounting

 
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    08-29-2010, 12:36 AM
  #1
Banned
Proud cut barrel horse

I recently discovered that my favorite barrel horse is proud cut, it doesnt seem to affect him to much. But my two questions are (1) will being proud cut ever affect his performance and (2) he also got in with my mares(I usually keep the geldings and mare seperated) will any of the mares he mounted have a chance of getting pregnant?
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    08-29-2010, 12:45 AM
  #2
Started
How do you know he is proud cut?

Did they only take the testicle that was descended into the scrotum and not go find the one in the belly?
If he was indeed gelded incorrectly and there is a testicle up in the belly he will probably act studdy at some point. That may or many not affect his performace as a barrle horse.
No, he can't make mares pregnant if his testicle is not in the scrotum. If it is up in the belly, it is smaller than normal and the sperm are dead.
     
    08-29-2010, 01:04 AM
  #3
Banned
Well, I've had a people tell me he is and I know for a fact that he was NOT cut by a vet.

Thanks for your post
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    08-29-2010, 11:25 AM
  #4
Started
Well, if that is the case, then whomever cut him probably just took the decended testicle and left the one inside. So, for sure he can't get mares pregnant. But he can mount them and also act like a stud. That will be your problem running him barrels if there is a mare in heat, his mind might not be on the barrels. You can have a simple blood test run that will tell how much testosterone is in his blood, that will tell you he is proud cut for sure, thenyou can decide whether to have the second testicle removed or not.
How old is he?
     
    08-29-2010, 02:24 PM
  #5
Banned
Proud cut does not refer to an undescended testicle. Proud cut refers to leaving part or whole of the epididymus gland in the horse's body. The epididymus or "pride" is actually the testosterone producing gland, and it is quite easy to leave a piece behind. During the castration, the gland has to be carefully peeled away from the surrounding tissue, and sometime you have to follow the inguinal ligament up into the abdominal cavity to get all of the gland tissue.

A home or backyard castration is highly likely to result in proud cut.

A horse that is well and truly proud cut is chemically identical to a stallion; but can not impregnate a mare without an intact descended testicle.
     
    08-29-2010, 04:59 PM
  #6
Started
I know that proud cut refers to a piece of the gland left, but for some reason alot of people relate "proud cut" to an undecended testicle.
Sorry that I did not get specific.

Regardless, a blood test will tell whether the testostorone is there or not
     
    08-29-2010, 07:36 PM
  #7
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma    
I know that proud cut refers to a piece of the gland left, but for some reason alot of people relate "proud cut" to an undecended testicle.
Sorry that I did not get specific.

Regardless, a blood test will tell whether the testostorone is there or not
I do know what proud cut means but the horse is 13
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    08-29-2010, 08:40 PM
  #8
Foal
proud cut- no such thing. The epididymis does not create testosterone.
The Male Horse: Does Gelding Improve On Stallion Behavior?
Mirror KB Article - Gelding: A Stallion's Altered Ego

And a vet discussion forum
HorseAdvice.com Equine & Horse Advice: Proud Cut

If he is acting stallion-like then its: a) learned behavior or b) his adrenal gland is creating excess testorone.

cryptorchidism- is an undescended testicle. Which rpdices non-viable sprem (because of the body heat of the horse) and testosterone. Requires surgery and depending on how far the testicle is with in the cavity of the abdomen depends on the price. Cryptorchidism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As long as no testicle is apparent the horse cannot get a mare pregnant- though some claim that a very very small percentage of cryptos can.

Afffecting performance depends on his training. Stallions can preform quite well as long as they handled and trained correctly. They take more time and need a more active handler-rider as they are always being doused with hormones (testosterone). Same as a proud cut horse.

Only way to tell for sure is to get a blood test as was mentioned.
     
    08-29-2010, 10:27 PM
  #9
Started
I think that "proud cut" is a term that is used by "backyard gelders" you know the good ole boys who can cut your stallion without the cost of a vet?
I think sometimes these guys do the gelding and when they realize that there is only one testicle, they finish their job and then say" oh, he must be proud cut instead of admitting they left a testicle.
Get a blood test done, then you will know for sure.
     
    08-30-2010, 09:55 AM
  #10
Banned
Reyvin,

But if any tissue from the epididymis is retained, as well as any testicular tissue, the adrenal will still secrete testosterone, and chemically, the horse will be a stallion.

You're correct in that the epidiymis does not actually produce testosterone, but presence of the gland or tissue *causes* testosterone to be produced.

I was under the impression that failure to remove all of the epididymis was the most common cause of the so-called "proud cut" and very, very common in a backyard procedure.
     

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