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Training "Skelator"

This is a discussion on Training "Skelator" within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category

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        06-12-2013, 02:37 PM
      #21
    Yearling
    Thak you barrelracer23, ill look into both of those.
         
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        06-12-2013, 02:44 PM
      #22
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    ive been riding the horse on and off, the last four months. Theres another girl, good hands, nice rider, who also ridden him. When he was doing good, and his previous owner felt brave, she'd drug him, how heavily depending on how bad he was to halter. She'd hop on, he'd do his best impression of a giraffe.

    Over the last four weeks, (the first two of which I did not own him, just rode him) he has been first lunged and bridle on/off on/off, then saddle, on/off, on/off. That was week one. Week two, I went back to what the teen had done. Walk, trot. Stop, back. Left, right. That was week two and half of three. Week four (last week) we began cantering. First three cantering rides, bucking. Last three rides, minimal discomfort. My trainer, who has been watching, and commenting his progress, though not doing any riding or real lesson times, agrees that he's doing fine. 30 days plus a week, he's in a good spot, for a horse who was previously well trained (the pleasure barn he was born at) restart enough?
    Four months, or four weeks? And no. He's hollow and evading even your hackamore. You need to restart him, do you know what restarting means? It means working with him like he's never been ridden.And if your trainer is saying he looks fine, it's time to find a new one, because that horse needs more help than you and your trainer are giving him. He's mentally fried, tense, hollowed out and evading. Start him over. Pony him if you have to. Stay off any roads with him, especially the ones that are more like highways.
    beau159 and busysmurf like this.
         
        06-12-2013, 02:52 PM
      #23
    Yearling
    On and off, four months. This time around, four weeks. Yea, I know what restarting is. Hence why we went back to tacking and untacking a month ago. I agree, he's tense. Why don't we be constructively critical instead of offensively critical here?

    We're in my arena. Havent left the arena under saddle. And no thanks, im not into being thrown into traffic. I took him out of the back of the property the other day when he broke my saddle, the part you cat see in the pictures? Yea, the part that's tree lined, and about 3 acres away from a road.

    Trainers process that im following with this guy......

    Lunge ring, tack, untack. Start under saddle, walk, trot under saddle, go back to the round pen. Every other session we work on using and collecting in the round pen. The days we're not in the round pen, we're executing simple under saddle cues. We've moved up to cantering under saddle, and still collecting at the walk in the round pen. Although, I got about half a lap of calm collected trot yesterday.
         
        06-12-2013, 03:08 PM
      #24
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    So, my fiance has stolen my horse. He's decided he's fallen in love with toby, and that he will be his buddy, and help me turn him into a nice schooling barrel horse. We're not out for speed, just precision, ad if he ends up being fast, well awesome. YOUT GOAL

    However, he wants to change his name to Skelator. O.0 ok,.... he needs a new registered name, which Fiance has decided will be "Skelatoryzer" since I told him it needed to fit with ParalyzingEquineINC.

    So this thread will be about Toby, aka Skelator, ad his journy through retraining and becoming a barrel horse. YOUR GOAL

    To catch you up, I bought Toby two weeks ago, from a woman who unfortunately had let him get into some very bad habits, and then let him get into pretty sad shape. He was bred at a pretty high end western pleasure/halter barn. Shown in hand for a while, then turned out with a bunch of others until he was bought up by this woman. When he first got to DLF ( our barn) he reared, bit, bolted, and was MAJOR head shy. The woman who owned him ever really set limits, so his habits just got worse. He WOULD NOT tolerate a bridle, which she got on him by sedating him with 4 ace pills. The she rode him, ad eve sedated, he jigged, and wiggled and bolted. She hauled on his face, which made it worse. She gave up for a while, and a teen girl started working with him. She got the bridle on him, got him walking and trotting under saddle, she had beautiful light hands and a soft but demanding way with him. He responded well, ad after a couple weeks, the owner got back on, and he went right back into his frenzy. She decided he was not worth the training, and began dosing him with 10-13 ace pills every ride. O.O he still bolted, bit her, ad refused to work for her. So she bought another horse, and I picked up Toby.

    Well, since then, he's completed join up beautifully. I've discovered, he wants to be your friend. He now lifts all four feet for cleaning (trimming is a whole different ball game, he already broke my toe). I switched him to a fleece lined hackamore, and he does beautiful in it, eve lowers his head to put it on now (BIG change from rearing when he heard a bit jingling) he stops dead in it, and I see no reason to make him wear a bit. Out of curiosity, how much barrel experience DO you have? By this I mean running a full pattern, dealing with the adrenaline, etc. What is your reasoning behind not using a bit? A mechanical hack can be so much more severe than a simple bit. If you can get him to put his head down to put a hack on, you should be able to do it to put a bit in. If you can't get anything near his mouth, how are you going to worm him, or give him any oral meds?
    His biting has gone down considerably, he'll still nip now and then, but he's pretty much decided its not worth the effort. The rearing has stopped for the most part. Its still his first reaction to fear.


    As for training, im pretty sure he was still drugged down the first two days I rode him, as he barely picked his feet up. Third day, walking was great, he turned ok. trotting, he wiggled and wanted to go back to the gate ~ then he's not ready to trot, ESPECIALLY with a future barrel horse. It doesn't end well, I'm sure there's pictures/video of me a long time ago of what happens when you haven't addressed that issue more than once . We did some circles and figure eights and he got over it. I asked for a cater, just to see, and BOOM. Out comes my brand new saddle bronc! So I rode it out, and he cantered a few strides, ad we called it quits. Next day, we aimed for a lap around at the canter, each way, and after some more figure eights and circles trotting we went for it. Half a lap of bucking and BULLSEYE. Beautiful :) He IS NOT ready to canter OR trot. I can not stress this enough. You yourself said you want him to be a barrel horse in the future. If those are your intentions, and I'm assuming you want him to be a GOOD barrel horse, than WHY would you intentionally put HUGE holes in his training? This isn't just my opinion, but that of countless others who have exponential more experience than I.

    So for the last two rides, we've been able to canter without bucking, both ways. We need to work on our right lead a little, but he's doig great. We aso started with tie straps in the round pen, trying to encourage a long low posture to help out his topline (not many hills here. Florida)he's started to relax into it a little, but only time will tell. He's got a nice turn at the trot around the barrels.

    BUT yesterday, I tied him off to annie to drag him through a trail or two for experience. We hadnt eve left the barn yet, but one of the woodshop guys started a lawnmower, and UP went toby. And RIP
    Went the whole horn and pommel of my saddle. Clean off, and dragging behind him as he head for the hills before the scarey horrible lawn monster could get him. -.- sooo, now I need a new saddle.

    AnYWHOO

    Pictures........
    And since I still can't figure out how to quote multiple posts, I'll just do it this way. Yes, you can use a side-pull. I have used it initially on horses that have their mouths torn to shreads by hard hands. Within a few rides, I'm in that snaffle. There is just so much more effective communication with the horse compared to a mechanical hack or even a side-pull. I don't think those 2 things are effective at all for communicating the skills necessary for running. And I haven't seen a good runner use either on a good horse.

    You asked about hackmores, we've told you. A hackmore, any kind, isn't going to teach them what you want AT THIS POINT, plain & simple. The horses that I do see run with any mechanical hack (not talking about combos, which should be reserved for experienced runners) ARE the ones with the nose in the air, hollowed out, & evasive.

    As far as circling the barrels, fine, you didn't make a turn, I got it. But there's SO much more that you need to work on. He looks like he has some SERIOUS potential, I would LOVE to have a horse like that now. WHY would you not want to train him, so that he can reach that potential?? If you just want to ignore me, that's fine. BUT you'll get the same from a lot of other racers here and in person......
    QHriderKE likes this.
         
        06-12-2013, 03:14 PM
      #25
    Yearling
    K, so restarting a horse who wants to go back to the barn, does not include dealing with unstraight lines and gate sour issues?
         
        06-12-2013, 03:16 PM
      #26
    Yearling
    My dead broke hunter will sometimes wiggle and attempt to stick by the gate. Especially if theres people standing there. Should I not work her either?
         
        06-12-2013, 03:17 PM
      #27
    Yearling
    Also, ever met a horse who didnt have SOMETHING he got stuck on in training. With toby, bucking when being cued to canter.
         
        06-12-2013, 03:18 PM
      #28
    Yearling
    This was the horse that had her mouth shredded. Even the slightest contact with her face sent her into a tyrade. How she is in this picture is how she was under saddle...

    http://www.horseforum.com/attachment...e-imag0500.jpg


    To this (minus the tie-down. We were working on something else that day so I attached it for the pic)...

    http://www.horseforum.com/attachment...s-imag0045.jpg
         
        06-12-2013, 03:20 PM
      #29
    Yearling
    Not ignoring anybody here, taking the advice on teh hack after ADMITTInG FULLY to not knowing much about them. When I first started riding, at seven yrs old, I did barrels. Did that for a while, until I switched to hunter. Did hunter forever, until I started working with a former BO's horse. Took that horse through two full local circuits, did well, not fabulous, but well. Still have a trainer looking over my shoulder for barrel work, since english is my strength.
         
        06-12-2013, 03:25 PM
      #30
    Yearling
    What im understanding, and please, correct me if im wrong, is that I should not be trotting my horse, because he's gate sour. Nor should I be canter, because he bucks. K. So how would you like me to fix those problems without riding him?
         

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