Training "Skelator" - Page 5
   

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Training "Skelator"

This is a discussion on Training "Skelator" within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category

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        06-13-2013, 09:16 AM
      #41
    Banned
    AP you said in your previous post that when you put a bit in his mouth he threw you in the air a few feet - I'm assuming you tried to ride him with the bit, did you consider lunging and ground driving him in it first?
         
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        06-13-2013, 10:03 AM
      #42
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    and for two circuits in teh past two years, but its ok if you conveniently didnt read that part. Oh, and it was under the instruction of a trainer.
    So it's okay that YOU are rude and snarky in your comments, but no one else on here is allowed to say one thing that isn't patting you on the back? Really now.

    You need to start explaining things more clearly. You said: "When I first started riding, at seven yrs old, I did barrels. Did that for a while, until I switched to hunter. Did hunter forever, until I started working with a former BO's horse. Took that horse through two full local circuits, did well, not fabulous, but well. Still have a trainer looking over my shoulder for barrel work, since english is my strength."

    So please tell me where in that paragraph you specified those circuits were barrel racing, and not hunter? Because how I read that, you were doing hunter circuits with your BO's horse. Don't accuse me of not reading things when YOU did not clearly say those circuits were barrel racing. We cannot read your mind.

    Either way, barrel racing when you were 7 years old, and then doing 2 years at some point after that STILL is not much barrel racing experience at all. I would still consider you to be a newbie to barrel racing and my previous advice still applies.

    As another example of failure to be clear, you said: "I havent actually started him around a barrel yet. We've walked em, jogged em with BIG circles around each barrel. He hast gotte to where I have to teach him to rate yet."

    You say you haven't started him on barrels, but then you follow it with a sentence describing what barrel work you've done with him. Again, it is unnecessary for you to get snarky at us because we can't understand what's going on because you haven't explained it clearly.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    we don't always go in a pattern around the barrels. We'll figure eight em, or do one and double backwards to another. Sometimes we'll do the clover, but not enough to make him go "oh!"
    Wait. I thought you said you have NOT started him on the barrels, and you were mad at us for telling you not to start him yet? Now it sounds like you have started him on the barrels, since you are doing pattern work. So which is it?

    Clarity......

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    yes, I've tried with a bit. He tastes metal and UP he goes. Threw me a few feet in the air. if it aint a problem, dot gotta fix it. I like the side pull, but I have an s hack a friend is letting me borrow for a few rides.

    I have no problem with your advice beau, though I disagree with your desire to shove a bit in his mouth. I dislike your demeaning "high horse" (pardon the pun) tone. I take offense to your assumptions. But, I can't do anything about you. I can take the good advice here for my horse.
    Well the bit sure sounds like a problem to me. No, not all horses will work the best in a bit. There are some horses that work much better in a hack of some sort. But I see no reason why any horse cannot be trained to at least accept the bit. (Although I do enjoy how you snarkily changed my word "accept" to "shove".)

    I'll use my boarding lady as an example. She rides her horse in a Little S hackamore all the time, because the horse dislikes a bit in her mouth. The difference here is, though, is that she CAN still ride her with a bit and she will do so on occasion. You can tell the bit is not the horse's favorite thing, but she will accept riding with a bit because it is what you are asking her to do.

    So if he's doing well with other ground work, why not incorporate bit training into his ground work?

    He should not be rearing under any circumstances. So please be more clear. Did you try the bit ONCE and he reared? Where you riding him or where you on the ground when he "threw you a few feet"? What did you do to reprimand him when he reared in response to the bit?
         
        06-13-2013, 10:36 AM
      #43
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    and for two circuits in teh past two years, but its ok if you conveniently didnt read that part. Oh, and it was under the instruction of a trainer.

    His ground work: which we work on CONSTANTLY. He does not crowd, and when he does, he has to back to the end of the lead rope and stand. I can lift all four feet, when ever I ask, tied, haltered, or standing free. If im stading in his paddck, I can scrunch my eyebrows, lean forward and point and he either backs or trots off. If I want him to come to me I call his name, and turn my hip to him with my hand out. Treats or no, he usually comes. Recently, we've begun hands free leading. He'll walk, nose at my shoulder, trot, though he runs off when he feels good, stops, thuogh he sometimes puts his shoulder up to mine (always backs to position when I ask him) will turn and yield the hind. We're working on getting him to "count" as a trick in our ground work sessions.


    yes, I've tried with a bit. He tastes metal and UP he goes. Threw me a few feet in the air. If it aint a problem, dot gotta fix it. I like the side pull, but I have an s hack a friend is letting me borrow for a few rides.

    I have no problem with your advice beau, though I disagree with your desire to shove a bit in his mouth. I dislike your demeaning "high horse" (pardon the pun) tone. I take offense to your assumptions. But, I can't do anything about you. I can take the good advice here for my horse.

    Ad if you;d like to take a try at convincing my fiance to be intelligent, go for it. I've warned him a million times.


    Thank you red horse. We don't always go in a pattern around the barrels. We'll figure eight em, or do one and double backwards to another. Sometimes we'll do the clover, but not enough to make him go "oh!"
    Then there is a HUGE hole in his training. The roan mare that I had pictures of sounds like a carbon copy of your horse, same history, same reactions (and she's not my first horse like that). So in this case I AM VERY experienced. I will try & spell this out.

    A horse MUST yeild to pressure. PERIOD. That means if I put my arm on their poll, that head better drop down or we are going to have a problem. It doesn't matter if I am just brushing, putting a halter on, or putting a bit in the mouth. That head MUST be down or at the least controlable. Anytime I got a bit near the mares mouth, up she went. WRONG ANSWER!! Back to square one, arm on poll, head down. No if's, and's or but's, I can't stress this enough. It took a good 3 months, until it wasn't an issue any more.

    And something interesting happened.....once she understood that when my arm or hand was on her poll and I WASN'T going to hurt her, she became a different horse. Instead of fighting with her in the saddle, things went smoother. When she got nervous, a hand on her poll was all it took to relax her, that became a safe place.

    What we are trying to tell you, is that, by your own admission you aren't experienced in getting a horse ready for barrels. And after reading this, and a few other points, I seriously question how much useful experience you have. I know plenty of people who have ridden longer than I've been alive, but their USEFUL experience is limited to lacking. They know how to sit on a horse, and get it to do slightly more than basic commands. AND THAT'S FINE!! I'm also NOT saying that is you, but you are not ready to deal with the types of issues this horse has based on your responses and described actions.

    If you want to skip the advice given here by those who DO have the qualifications to help, that's fine and completely up to you. BUT, don't expect us to tell you what a great job you are doing, or have done. We've been very polite here, despite feelings of frusteration on our end I'm guessing.

    You want advice, GREAT AWESOME GOOD JOB!! Then TAKE it!! Especially when it's the SAME info OVER & OVER again. That's almost always a sign that it's GOOD advice, and something that you should listen to. I don't know how else we can put it, you have the potential to make a GREAT horse, just accept your weakness's a learn from them. Use this horse as your opportunity to go from a rider to an educator.
    beau159, MsBHavin and QHriderKE like this.
         
        06-13-2013, 10:37 AM
      #44
    Yearling
    Nope. Not once. We tried the week he got here, 8 months ago. No dice. Tried for 2 weeks, until his owner got tired of not riding and DRUGGED him to put it in his mouth. She then rode with her hands at her shoulders. Couple of months later, teen tries. Still no go. He reared, bit and ended up busting our tie out. She rode him in a halter. (which is why the side pull attracts me) the owner, continued to drug and bit him, I rode in halter like the teen. The two weeks before I bought him, I tried it just for poos and giggles. Nadda. Every time, rears. I don't see the need to put a bit in his mouth if he's comfortable steering and responding without one. Granted, something less harsh so I can get him rounding out, but I don't think he NEEDS to know a bit, especially if he hates it so adamantly. Question for you, why would I reprimand a horse in fear? Would you kick a scared puppy? Or smack a scared child? I didnt reprimand him. I let him have his tantrum until he stood nicely, backed, and yielded. Then I asked him to take the bit again. To clarify for you, I stood by his shoulder with his reins over his head, put one hand up by his ears with the headstall, and brought the bit to his mouth SLOWLY. The bit, was a simple, fat, full cheek snaffle. I slipped my finger in his mouth to rub his gums, and UP he went again. Took less time to calm him down each time, but every time that bit touched his lip, he shut down.

    Last I checked, BIG circles werent barrel circles. I use the barrels to practice bending my hunter mare. Does she know a pattern? Hell no. But she'll bend in big pretty circles in a clover pattern.

    Sorry you misunderstood my sentence. And im sorry your misunderstanding my use of the barrels as "starting" him to barrels. I've gotte some good advice here. I've taken the advice that will work for me and my horse.
         
        06-13-2013, 10:40 AM
      #45
    Yearling
    He does yield to poll pressure. Which is why I can get the hack on, the halter on, his trailer helmet thingy on, fly mask, etc. is the bit that's the issue.

    I ahvent lunged him I it or driven him in it. With all the fightinng, I get it I his mouth, and let him have a couple treats or some gatorade (he loves it) and take it out. After putting the hack on, without a fight after the third time trying, (as opposed to maybe a HUNDRED, between the teen and I with the bit) I decided to stick without a bit. He steers without it, why force it.
         
        06-13-2013, 10:43 AM
      #46
    Yearling
    So everybody can read it.

    He's being switched to a sidepull. We're going back to walk trot in the arena, and yea, im still going to use my barrels to make big bendy circles around. We're working on collecting walk trot canter I the round pen. Ad when he can do that, we'll canter in the arena.


    I don't feel the need for a bit. Just my opinion. Sorry if you don't like it.
         
        06-13-2013, 10:46 AM
      #47
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    Nope. Not once. We tried the week he got here, 8 months ago. No dice.

    Thought you said earlier that you'd only worked with him for 4 weeks, or was it 4 months?

    You've only tried to get a bit in his mouth a tiny time out of the entire 4 weeks, 4 months, 8 months, a year(?) that you've 'worked' with him, but you're more concerned about getting him ready for your boyfriend to ride barrels on.


    P.S. If you are a horse professional, then you NEED to tell your boyfriend No shoes, no horses. Period. People are inherently dumb, and for you to not enforce a shoe policy around horses you are HELPING him head in a bad direction.
    beau159 likes this.
         
        06-13-2013, 11:00 AM
      #48
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    Nope. Not once. We tried the week he got here, 8 months ago. No dice. Tried for 2 weeks, until his owner got tired of not riding and DRUGGED him to put it in his mouth. She then rode with her hands at her shoulders. Couple of months later, teen tries. Still no go. He reared, bit and ended up busting our tie out. She rode him in a halter. (which is why the side pull attracts me) the owner, continued to drug and bit him, I rode in halter like the teen. The two weeks before I bought him, I tried it just for poos and giggles. Nadda. Every time, rears. I don't see the need to put a bit in his mouth if he's comfortable steering and responding without one. Granted, something less harsh so I can get him rounding out, but I don't think he NEEDS to know a bit, especially if he hates it so adamantly. Question for you, why would I reprimand a horse in fear? Would you kick a scared puppy? Or smack a scared child? I didnt reprimand him. I let him have his tantrum until he stood nicely, backed, and yielded. Then I asked him to take the bit again. To clarify for you, I stood by his shoulder with his reins over his head, put one hand up by his ears with the headstall, and brought the bit to his mouth SLOWLY. The bit, was a simple, fat, full cheek snaffle. I slipped my finger in his mouth to rub his gums, and UP he went again. Took less time to calm him down each time, but every time that bit touched his lip, he shut down.

    Last I checked, BIG circles werent barrel circles. I use the barrels to practice bending my hunter mare. Does she know a pattern? Hell no. But she'll bend in big pretty circles in a clover pattern.

    Sorry you misunderstood my sentence. And im sorry your misunderstanding my use of the barrels as "starting" him to barrels. I've gotte some good advice here. I've taken the advice that will work for me and my horse.

    So what's your plan when you have to give him oral meds? Or have his teeth done? If they don't like things in their mouth, even if they are sedated it makes it 100 times harder.

    For whatever reason, you don't want to ride in a bit. Fine, I think it would help more, but whatever. The fact still remains a VERY important part of training is missing.

    And for clarification, when I said "We have problems". I'm not reprimanding a fearful horse. If the horse is still scared of keeping their head down (using that as an example), than I need to take a step back. That means the horse doesn't have a clear understanding of what I'm asking. That's MY shortfall & I will need to work more with that horse on that issue.

    Also, don't get bad attitude confused with fear. From your description of this horses reactions, I'm going with he knows that if he does x, you won't force the issue. It's long past the fear, and is now a bad habit. And because of a past owner, you are letting him get away with it.
    beau159 and MsBHavin like this.
         
        06-13-2013, 11:03 AM
      #49
    Yearling
    Whe he got to DLF, 8 months ago, owned by another woman, who asked ofr hep with his bit. WE as I, her, the teen and myself. 4 months, on and off, I've been riding him. I rode him for two weeks before I bought him, and have been riding him for 5 weeks as of saturday.

    As for my fiance, he's a adult. He's singed the liability waivers. He wants to be an idiot, whatever. My students, and my volunteers, all required to wear shoes. I can't tell him you can't come out to the barn if you don't have shoes on. Im not his mother, im not his trainer, im not the barn owner.

    Obviously the horse is a LONG way from having my less than horseforum worthy fiance even trail ride him. EVENTUALLY he will hop on. But that's EVENTUALLY.
         
        06-13-2013, 11:15 AM
      #50
    Yearling
    He was sedated to have his teeth done. And I've mixed his oral stuff with applesauce, he'll eat it right out of the syringe.

    He's not afraid of having his head messed with, he's not afraid to have it down. He'll lower it to the floor if I ask. He loves his ears scratched.

    Thought.... we've always used stainless steel. Never copper or anything rubber..... thoughts?
         

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