Training "Skelator" - Page 6
   

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Training "Skelator"

This is a discussion on Training "Skelator" within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category

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        06-13-2013, 11:31 AM
      #51
    Trained
    Thoughts:

    It's funny how reading through this the first person to get rude and snarky was you.

    I'm glad that your comprehension skills are improving and you are taking on board what has been advised in some cases.

    More thoughts:

    If you can mess with his mouth, administer wormer, dose him up etc, then by elimination the bit is the issue. I think you said that he has had his teeth done, but it might be worth having him checked again, with specific instructions to look for any issues. ( I haven't read back, but I'm sure you said it was done during his PPE, which seems flaky but never mind)

    Once you have ruled out pain problems, then yes, look to switching things up, maybe start with just a leather strap just so he gets used to the action of putting something on his mouth.

    We use this stuff Sealtex Bandage 3in. X 36 Inch | BAB2160 | Greenhawk to wrap bits during the winter, try that, cheaper than having all sorts of bits about, but if he doesn't like metal, it is a way to go.

    Obviously whatever you try, don't go ride him in it, just put it on and take it off until he is totally bored with the whole process and go from there.
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        06-13-2013, 11:39 AM
      #52
    Yearling
    I don't think most people understand working with a horse this abused. Granted I've never dealt with one this bad, but their not the blank slate everyone is used to. Alot of horses are never broke to accept a bit, not my way but some people do it. I like a sidepull and think for this horse it would work well. If in time he can learn to accept a bit then good, but for now it sounds like he just needs to continue learning that riding won't be a bad experience anymore. OP I'm glad your going back to more basic steps to work on collection and I hope you'll find someone to help you when he's ready to start on the barrels.
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        06-13-2013, 11:42 AM
      #53
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BarrelRacer23    
    I don't think most people understand working with a horse this abused. Granted I've never dealt with one this bad, but their not the blank slate everyone is used to.
    You maybe need to think again, there are a lot of experienced people here who have dealt with all sorts of issues, we don't all get handed blank slates, or perfectly trained horses
         
        06-13-2013, 11:43 AM
      #54
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BarrelRacer23    
    I don't think most people understand working with a horse this abused. Granted I've never dealt with one this bad, but their not the blank slate everyone is used to. Alot of horses are never broke to accept a bit, not my way but some people do it. I like a sidepull and think for this horse it would work well. If in time he can learn to accept a bit then good, but for now it sounds like he just needs to continue learning that riding won't be a bad experience anymore. OP I'm glad your going back to more basic steps to work on collection and I hope you'll find someone to help you when he's ready to start on the barrels.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    He's not an abused horse. He wasn't beaten, or starved. He had an idiot owner who couldn't handle him and did what she knew (which obviously was bad) to get him to stop. Training him the way he's being trained Now is not going to help him any. Rush Rush Rush Rush instead of taking him down and starting him over from scratch. If she had started him over, he'd be a **** nice horse, but instead she's pushing him into w t c when he doesn't even understand how to not brace against her and go under saddle in a nice collection.
         
        06-13-2013, 11:53 AM
      #55
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    question for you, why would I reprimand a horse in fear? Would you kick a scared puppy? Or smack a scared child? I didnt reprimand him. I let him have his tantrum until he stood nicely, backed, and yielded.
    Because a rearing horse is DANGEROUS. That's why. I don't care WHY they are doing it, because they shouldn't be doing it at all. Period. And you just "let him" have his rearing tantrum? Absolutely not. This is a good example where a 'come to Jesus' meeting would have been in order. Being scared of the bit should be the last thing on his mind when momma gets mad. You do know you have only got 3 seconds to correct a horse so they associate the correction with the improper behavior, right? So if you wait for him to "have his tantrum" after you introduce the bit and THEN after 20 seconds you ask him to back up and yield ..... he is not associating any of that as a correction for his rearing in response to the bit. None.

    What are you going to do when one of your future lesson kids thinks it would be cute to play with his lips and teeth, and he rears and stomps the child, sending them to the ER with broken ribs and a puncture lung? Will you continue to blame the previous owner for his actions and refuse to take responsibility for him? Rearing horses kill people.

    This is a HUGE issue that NEEDS to be fixed. That is why you need to get him used to a bit. Because he is dangerous if the problem is not fixed.

    Now you say he bucks at the canter. So should you just never canter him because he adamantly hates it? And if you just avoid the bucking problem then he won't buck? Absolutely not. So why does it make any sense to say that you just won't use a bit and simply ignore the problem by sedating him when you need to do things with his mouth? He won't even let you touch his teeth or gums!! THAT is an issue that needs to be fixed.

    I'm certainly not saying it is going to be something easy to fix. It's going to take a looooooooong time. But for the safety of you and other who will be around this horse, this issue NEEDS to be fixed. Period.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    Nope. Not once. We tried the week he got here, 8 months ago. No dice. Tried for 2 weeks, until his owner got tired of not riding and DRUGGED him to put it in his mouth. She then rode with her hands at her shoulders. Couple of months later, teen tries. Still no go. He reared, bit and ended up busting our tie out.
    Again, this just goes to show that he still does have holes in his training and ground work. He shouldn't be busting ties (or busting off the horn on your saddle). He doesn't know how to give to pressure in a stressful situation, and he needs to learn how. Again, I said it before, Clinton Anderson has great ground work exercises that show how to work with disrespectful horses in ALL situations. I would highly recommend it.
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        06-13-2013, 12:01 PM
      #56
    Started
    Using a sidepull is a perfectly good choice.
    But, you havent TRIED hard enough to get him to accept a bit. It doesn't sound like you've tried at all.

    Do you have a good, solid browband/throatlatch headstall? (Side ear wont work as good....)
    If so, put a smooth snaffle on it, put the horse in an empty, clean pen, put the bridle on him and turn him loose in the pen for an afternoon. So far in his life, he's learned her can get away from a bit and/or that it hurts. If you have to do this several days in a row for him to get it, good. So far, he's been spoiled. And spoiled. And made worse.
    You aren't going to hurt or ruin him by doing this. It's the same as taking a green horse and letting them stand tied and saddled for an afternoon.
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        06-13-2013, 12:04 PM
      #57
    Yearling
    A medical procedure from a vet is flakey? He was due, so I took the opportunity to not have another barn fee after purchase. I knew I was going to buy him, the ppe was for my own info. So if it helps you, we'll call it a check up instead.


    I would hate to have some of you out at my barn watching some of the boarders and kids. The number of horses ridden hollow, some of the bits, some of the tack, some of the methods. Some of you would have the owners crying and giving up horses for good.

    As for abuse, im almost sure that sedating a horse with 13 ace pills ad riding him daily fits along that somewhere. Same for wearig sores into his mouth from yanking on him with a bit. And the cuts and bumps from getting beaten when he was scared. And im pretty sure the rampant mange on his face (which is cleared up nicely, just waitin on the hair) would qualify as neglect. He was fed, enough to not be obviously skinny, but you can see from the pics, he's far from ideal. But, every time I talk about a horse im trying to help, ad I talk about the owner in detail, I get a whole lot more aggrivation than just asking about training, like here. So I didnt feel it necessary to share.


    I don't see how the same 30 days id spend on breaking a 3 yr old, doesnt match up on the 30 days I've already spent on toby. 30 days with a blank slate, we saddle, unsaddle, bridle, unbridle, walk, and trot. Did the same with toby. Only, he's had good work done on him before. Ad some bad work recently. He comes back to proper work easily. He has this one tick, (the bit) and some issues using his body. So I cantered for a total of his last six rides. K, we're stepping back from that. Putting him in something less harsh, still no bit, I don't see the need.



    Thank you to those of you who have given helpful, friendly, unassuming advice. :)
         
        06-13-2013, 12:11 PM
      #58
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AnalisaParalyzer    
    still no bit, I don't see the need.
    So if you do not see the need to fix a horse's REARING problem, then you have no business having horses, much less giving lessons.

    Good Bye
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        06-13-2013, 12:22 PM
      #59
    Yearling
    I HAVE EVER SEDATED A HORSE FOR TRAINING. PERIOD. His PREVIOUS owner sedated him.


    So. Your kid is scared. So you beat him scare him some more. "oh your scared? Here let me give you a reason." im not going to FORCE this horse. Im not going to blow up at him for BEING a horse. He needs to learn he can trust me, not that he's going to get smacked around every time he's scared.

    I act like its no big deal. Nothin to be scared of. He freaks out, ok. Come back to me, we're going to try again.
    Freak out, ok, come back, try again. No freak out, just a refusal. Good horse. No reason to freak. Im not going to chase him, hurt him, punish him. Theres nothing to fear here.

    But dot see the point in forcing him to accept something that terrifys him, if I have an alternative. Sorry, but I know theres a few who agree with me.

    He's not around kids aright now and for good reason. I don't plan on having him around kids for a long time. I know a rearing horse is dangerous. See it first hand enough times. Been on the receiving end with this boy already. Honestly. The horse would strike and bite at you if you stood too close to him 7 months ago. He's come MILES I his attitude. And LEAPS in his willingness to do. Im proud of him. And, im proud of me. I gained his trust, he takes a saddle, a bridle, and a rider. Even if not a bit. And he does it WITHOUT sedation. Progress, I my opinion.
         
        06-13-2013, 12:25 PM
      #60
    Yearling
    The rearing is a definite problem. But, he doesnt rear over the hack, or the halter, or me scratching his ears. He doest rear over spooking, or when he's under saddle, at least not when your light with your hands. He rears when the bit comes out.
    Which I don't see a need for.
    Because he does well without one.
         

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