Are we improving at all?
 
 

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Are we improving at all?

This is a discussion on Are we improving at all? within the Barrel Racing forums, part of the Western Riding category
  • Barrel racing nfr
  • NFR Barrel horses

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    11-19-2013, 04:08 PM
  #1
Green Broke
Are we improving at all?

This video was just a short video I made. Now decided to post on here. I made it so that only people with the link can see it so not sure if it will embedd or not.

I know at the end I forgot to put all that stuff in ahahha.. so its blank.. but

Anyways.. yeah.. Please let me know what you think, You don't have to be NICE about it. But please do not be rude. I DON'T have a trainer, and I can not get one. But letting me know what I can improve on and what's going wrong will be nice. Thank you.

The newest Pole video on there was just for fun. He normally isn't running them lol:)
I know he needs more bend? Maybe. I am going to get the chiro out soon to see why he is stiff-ish.

Anything is appreciated. I also, got him in a new bit from the "the beginning" to the now part. And I am looking to switch again when my new bit arrives
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmyfI...ature=youtu.be
     
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    11-19-2013, 04:55 PM
  #2
Yearling
I will let the experts really way in but my thought is you need to come in way closer to the barrel. Your turns are very wide from start to finish. Pick a spot and drive her there. Then sit and bring her around. Find that same spot on the next spot, stare at it, drive her in, and bring her around.
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    11-19-2013, 05:04 PM
  #3
Yearling
Hope this works, this is a video of blue and I when he first started the pattern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCwV...e_gdata_player
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    11-19-2013, 07:17 PM
  #4
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by cowgirl4753    
I will let the experts really way in but my thought is you need to come in way closer to the barrel. Your turns are very wide from start to finish. Pick a spot and drive her there. Then sit and bring her around. Find that same spot on the next spot, stare at it, drive her in, and bring her around.
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Thanks

I have realized that they are a bit wide. I do that because he tends to cut them short sometimes.. so recently/ and probaby back then as well.. make a wider turn. I will work on bringing him in a bit. Thanks
     
    11-19-2013, 09:41 PM
  #5
Yearling
He doesn't use himself, he's what I call "pattern" broke. He just knows the pattern but not how to properly use his body. He needs to be taught how to rate, use his rear end, and collect his body to turn. Does he know how to sidepass? If not he needs to learn before doing any of the following. Also sounds like you need to work on picking his shoulder up beforehand too, lots of collected perfect circles. The easiest way to teach a horse to rate is to go to the barrel, get to where your pocket begins then stop, back up a few steps then continue around the barrel after waiting a moment. It's done at a walk, a trot, and lope. Normally if you lope you break down to a trot, a finished horse can take off back into a lope around the barrel. You don't move on to the next gait until they can do perfectly continuous at the gait your on. The best way to teach a horse to use their rear end is rollbacks off the fence, always start out slow and build up faster. It's hard to explain how to do a rollback in typing I suggest watching a few videos. Mainly it's working on the horse moving off your leg and sitting down to turn around. Your also not finishing your barrels which is partially due to your horse not rating. You always want to come off the barrel as close as you can and head straight to the next barrel, take the shortest route. Go into your barrel with a pocket using your legs to push him out, then slowly close in and come off close. Once my leg is past the barrel I begin moving them back over to head straight at the next barrel. One thing I was always told is you want perfect turns before speed or else the speed doesn't matter. I know I'm basically telling you to go back and retrain him, but it's going to help you. You have improved but going back to the beginning and redoing you'll find it easier on both you and him. I hope I wrote this in easy terms to understand, if not just ask.
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    11-19-2013, 10:34 PM
  #6
Green Broke
I understand.. Thanks. I am going to get the chiro out.. because your right he doesn't use his hind end. I think it's more of a he CAN'T properly because something is not working back there. Getting a full exam on him to see what I can fix and what not...

Yes he can sidepass, spin( slowly but still) and back with leg pressure.. blah all that stuff.. I guess I will go back to the basics again..

So should I make me pocket smaller coming into the barrel? Or should I still go wide( so when he is going faster we don't hit barrels) Or should I make them exactly how I would want when going fast? Ok. I have the Stopping and backing up...

Once I get to my pocket and stop.. at a walk( he should stop completely) and at a trot go down to a walk? Or stop as well and back up?

Could him not completely using himself be because my ground is NOT worked? Just from us riding in it that's it..

Thanks
     
    11-20-2013, 09:55 AM
  #7
Green Broke
Agree with barrelracer23. You've got yourself a very willing, but pattern-broke-only horse.

Have you read this thread? If so, read it again.
Barrel Racing Exercises and Drills.

His hind end engagement looks much better on your new video, than when you first started. However, it is never a bad idea to have a horse checked by a chiro and a vet. For example: I thought my horse was just the type that had difficulty using his back end properly. Well later this year, he started crossfiring in back during his turns. Turns out he has a catching stifle issue in his right hind...that has probably been there a long time but he just didn't show real symptoms until his year (minus the fact he didn't use his hind end great).

It could simply be that he just doesn't know how to use his hind end (because you haven't shown him), but it never hurts to rule out pain.

Yes, you need WAY more bend. You go into your turns straight, and your pocket is much too large. Especially on your third barrel.

Every horse is going to be a little bit different, in terms of how much room they need going into the pocket. As a rule of thumb, you want to aim for a spot about 4 feet from the barrel. If you are not sure where that is out, go out with a tape measure and mark it on the ground. Then, you want to maintain that 4 feet distance all the way around the barrel evenly. Now, there are other "pocket methods" out there. For example: Some people say go in wide to the turn, and come out very tight. For some horses, that works. But I much rather start with an even distance all the way around the barrel, and let the horse tell me where he likes to be to turn.

This video shows how you should approach the first barrel and set up your pocket.


You horse will have a hard time using his body correctly if you send him in there with no bend. Really overexaggerate it at first. Nose in, ribcage out, and hip in. So use a direct rein to get the nose in, use your inside leg to get the ribcage out, and use your outside leg (back a bit) to keep the hip in. Basically, your horse should be bent around your inside leg.

This video shows a great example of getting bend in your horse.

And yes, all these things mean you need to go back to a WALK and perfect it at the walk before going any faster.

You've been doing the barrels the wrong way for a while, so your horse is going to have some "set-in" bad habits. So it is really important on your part to go back to slow work and teach him to do it correctly.

You ride fairly quiet and that's good. The only thing I would change about your hands is to keep them more elevated. Watch your hand position around your 2nd barrel. You start out good coming into it, but then on the backside you pull your inside rein down, out, and toward your knee. That's too low.

Think of hands being here: (and check out the great bend that the great horse Martha has)



Granted, not all horses will work perfect with hands that high, BUT it obviously works well for Martha and it's an image you can put in your head to remind yourself to keep those hands UP during a turn.


Do not drift in and out of your turns. FINISH the barrel turn completely before you head to the next barrel. Make a direct straight line to your next barrel and your next pocket. Literally, your tracks should look like the green lines on this diagram. The only barrel where you are allowed a little bit of arch is your pocket into your first barrel.




You are going to have to take some time off the pattern to get Sunny more broke overall. He needs to be softer in the bit so that he can give his nose left and right to you. You need to be able to control every piece of his body: hindquarters, ribcage, shoulders, and head. When the day comes that you are doing the pattern at full speed, you need to have excellent control of each piece of his body so if you need to make a split-second decision to adjust his body position during a run, then you can do it because you've trained him that way.

Overall; not horrible. You've got a nice quiet horse and you are a quiet rider for the most part. You've got to get better body control from your horse, more bend in the turns, and clean up your pattern.
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    11-20-2013, 11:01 AM
  #8
Green Broke
Thank you for your input. I think I may have gotten lucky as well. New neighbors work with reining horses and show ALOT( they look like they are gone with horses showing everyweekend- and just made a huge arena:)... so maybe I will ask them how to get more control over him.

I will admit. I am a nood at trying or learning to get control/ how to tell when I am complete control over his WHOLE body..I know I can control my horse just not sure about all the technical stuff..

Beau thank you for the information. I understand. Ok.. This winter I will COMPLETELY take him off the pattern.
-maybe still take him to a show or to( not to run just to get used to it)


1. What is the first thing that I can start doing? Video that I can look off of?

Thanks:)
2. Can a change in a bit help a little??
     
    11-20-2013, 12:27 PM
  #9
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbeginner    
New neighbors work with reining horses and show ALOT( they look like they are gone with horses showing everyweekend- and just made a huge arena:)... so maybe I will ask them how to get more control over him.
Absolutely!! Getting advice in-person on softening your horse is the best you can do. Timing is so important and it's difficult to show/explain over the internet. You need someone standing there to say "now!" or "that was too late" or "good! Did you feel that?" to give you instant feedback on what you are doing with your cueing.

Even if you can just take a lesson or two here and there, that is better than nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbeginner    

I will admit. I am a nood at trying or learning to get control/ how to tell when I am complete control over his WHOLE body..I know I can control my horse just not sure about all the technical stuff..

Beau thank you for the information. I understand. Ok.. This winter I will COMPLETELY take him off the pattern.
Yes, this winter go raid your reining friends barn and work on reining all winter. You'll be pleasantly surprised how much quicker you will be able to progress through the barrel training in the spring, if you've got a good handle on Sunny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbeginner    
-maybe still take him to a show or to( not to run just to get used to it)
Sure. You can always take him and walk the barrels during an exhibition or something like that. Or ask if you can do a time-only if they don't have exhibitions. And get there early to ride in a strange area. All those things are good for a horse to get used to the environment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbeginner    
what is the first thing that I can start doing? Video that I can look off of?
Go talk to your reining neighbors. That's the first thing you can do!!

There's oodles of videos on the internet and I can't really point in the direction of certain ones.

Key thing: Try to get your horse to respond to the softest cue possible.

Let's say we want to teach your horse to move over his hind end. Let's say we want him to step it to the left. So move your right leg back slightly and just give very light pressure. If nothing happens, start bumping him lightly. IF nothing happens, start bumping harder. The VERY instant that he gives you the smallest step in the correct direction, stop bumping him and remove the pressure. Praise.

Then try again. Start with super light pressure from your calf. If nothing happens, start bumping very lightly. Again, once he does correctly, leave him alone.

Timing is very important. Your end goal will be that you barely shift your calf backward and he'll move his hip away from your leg.

That sort of thing can be very useful on the barrel pattern to place his hip exactly where you want it.

Repeat this exersice on the other side. And you can do the same exercise to move the shoulder (obviously your leg would move slightly forward, instead of backward).

Having independent control of the shoulder and the hip makes it easy to teach a horse to sidepass, where you can initially do a hip-shoulder-hip-shoulder cue to "zig zag" him to sidepass. Until he understands what you want and you can simply leave your leg in a neutral position, apply pressure, and he sidepasses instantly.

I did see in your video that he throws his nose from time to time. Softening him in the bridle, which your neighbors can possibly show you, will hlep him stop throwing his nose, and be able to "listen" to your hands when you so much as lift the reins a tad.

Getting your horse in tune to your body is so helpful. I'm trying to get my current horse Red to this point (and he's coming along) but I used to have a horse that all I would have to do is turn my upper body to look where I wanted to go, and he felt it and went there, without me having to touch him hardly with my legs, and with no rein contact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbeginner    
2. Can a change in a bit help a little??
Nope.

Will changing your basketball shoes make you a better basketball player? Nope. Shoes are shoes.

A bit is a bit. If you can't control your horse in X bit, then switching to Y bit won't help. Yes, there will be bits that horses work the best in for barrels, but since you are literally going to be doing some basic re-training, I'd stick with a plain ol' snaffle. And there's no rule that says you can't run barrels in a snaffle if he works well in it.
barrelbeginner likes this.
     
    11-20-2013, 09:41 PM
  #10
Green Broke
Thank you Beau for the information.

So He does sidepass..

But I should work on getting the hip and shoulder moving independently?

And YES I will go talk to my neighbors! Soon..

It's supposed to get about 8* tonight.. and snow A BUNCH:/
     

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