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YEA! Go Gidget!

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    10-16-2011, 03:24 PM
  #11
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RedHorse    
I stated on another thread circling a horse was a bad idea..but of course everyone else knew better.
I just want to reiterate the point that some associations will NOT let you do a running start. One of the shows I go to requires that you stop your horse before you start your run. No exceptions, or you will be disqualified. Another show I go to requires that the gate must be closed and latched before you start your run. Again, no exceptions or you are disqualified.

Just because you've never been to a show that has rules like this, does not mean they do not exist. I've been to lots of rodeos and NBHA runs too and my horse does do better with a running start, but we don't always get to. Rules are rules.

Personally, if it works for your horse to circle or works not to circle (if you have the free option to choose what you want), just do what works for your horse. Plain and simple.

Quote:
Also when I had the guy walk me in it's because she wanted to go into the arena and she was trying to run into it. I wanted help so that Gidget wouldn't get too excited and go for the speed barrels. I wasn't the only one who did this.
I had some issues with her when entering the gate as she wanted to just go at a running start. I had to get her into a corner,circle her,go over to the judge and wave to her to let her know I was paying attention to her before I went.
You've got the right concept to not allow her to do as she pleases ... but now you've got to execute that.

Personally, I do NOT like to do a running start on a horse that is still learning the barrels. I like to circle them before the run to get a nice relaxed collected gallop (and the correct lead) before I begin my pattern. However, when you get to having a finished horse, most of them will do the best with a running start. But not all, as there are always exceptions.

So even if your association does allow running starts, at this point I think it is definitely smart to NOT do running starts on Gidget. You need control, before speed. But we just have to work on your technique a little as far as how to do those circles, as I have already described.

I like this video example for the galloping circles in the beginning (I could make some comments on her pattern later in the video, but I won't). Both the horse and rider are quiet, the horse is collected, and the circles are nicely executed. I think it would be helpful to start your runs like this, because remember, you need to slow down the entire run anyway. Control, control, and control.


Quote:
With the birangle people were cheering for me and Gidget tried running sideways and I had to redirect her to go inbetween the poles to get our time or it would have been a no time.
As I already pointed out, it appears to be that Gidget ran sideways to compensate for YOU almost falling to the right. She runs to the right, she catches you. You can't expect her to run in a straight line (or correct her direction) if you are off-balance and leaning to the side and pulling on the reins on top of it. She's a good horse and she's trying danged hard to please you.

Quote:
I wasnt really asking much for speed yesterday.
Then don't go fast. Keep it to a collected, controlled gallop, and no more. It might have been peer pressure from the people cheering, but I saw you kick for speed on more than one occasion. CONTROL first ..... then speed.

Quote:
My horse was really hot and I have to stop and wave to the judge and then I go..I was having some troubles stopping my horse when entering so I had to get her calmed down as much as possible.
This is the part where when I said "Your horse needs to be more broke in general" rings true. If you can't even stop her, you need to get back to the basics and get back to simple training. Forget the speed stuff for now until you have better control over her in general.

For me, it is a number one rule that my horses will always stop with no questions asked in any and all situations. It's just too dangerous to not have a 100% solid WHOA.

I would highly encourage you to work with your friends for some hands-on training. Or even better, take some lessons yourself. There's only so much you can learn through the computer.


Quote:
She isn't a sour horse but just was really felling her oats yesterday. There was a lot of horses and she gets really excited around them.
Doesn't matter. She should listen to you whether you fed her 20 Rockstars that morning and there's a circus going on outside. There's nothing wrong with her being excited .... but she still needs to be attentive and listen to you. And you need to MAKE her do that. Again, I don't see this as the fault of Gidget at this point, but more the fault of the rider, which you do seem to realize. It's going to take TIME and work and patience and consistency, but it will get there.
Gidget likes this.
     
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    10-16-2011, 03:34 PM
  #12
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau159    
I just want to reiterate the point that some associations will NOT let you do a running start. One of the shows I go to requires that you stop your horse before you start your run. No exceptions, or you will be disqualified. Another show I go to requires that the gate must be closed and latched before you start your run. Again, no exceptions or you are disqualified.

Just because you've never been to a show that has rules like this, does not mean they do not exist. I've been to lots of rodeos and NBHA runs too and my horse does do better with a running start, but we don't always get to. Rules are rules.

.
I know about the closed gate rule...HS rodeo ;)

I understand about the running start...I just think its a bad habit on a FINISHED horse to always circle them. On colts I will to get them calm, collected and relaxed...but not on my open horses.

I honestly don't think in this case circling is doing much for her. She's strung out..stiff...and I belive I saw her miss a lead once. The whole point of loping a circle is to get your horse flexed and listening...is she?

Like I said, I don't think Gidget is hot. I think she's sore and grumpy.
     
    10-16-2011, 03:35 PM
  #13
Weanling
Sorry...but the horse in the video you posted in NOT collected. Hollow back...nose out...hind end not engaged.
     
    10-16-2011, 04:05 PM
  #14
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RedHorse    
I understand about the running start...I just think its a bad habit on a FINISHED horse to always circle them .
In most cases, yes, I would agree. But every horse is different. So if circling before every run works for THAT horse, then yes, you should circle. I feel that you can't make generalizations because horses are such unique individuals and "the norm" is never going to work for all of them.

The video in the other post I know we are both referring to, I think, worked beautifully in her case. I thought she did a terrific job with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1RedHorse    
I honestly don't think in this case circling is doing much for her. She's strung out..stiff...and I belive I saw her miss a lead once. The whole point of loping a circle is to get your horse flexed and listening...is she?
I have already pointed out to Gidget that I don't think she is executing the circling correctly. She's doing more a "duck and dive" weave thing into the corner and not using it as a tool that it was meant to be used for. Right now it's being used as a crutch since Gidget is a bit out of control. And yes, she certainly did not pick up the correct lead for the speed barrels she picked up the wrong lead, despite having a fairly decent circle .... which is rider error, not horse error. Again, you can go through the motions of circling before a run or what have you, but if you don't execute it properly, it's worthless. Like anything else.

And really, what makes Gidget any different than a young colt you are training for barrels? To mean, training is training no matter what the age. A slow correct pattern with control is much better than a sloppy out-of-control run any day of the week.

Overall, as it has already been established, Gidget just needs basic general training before going back to speed events.
     
    10-16-2011, 04:09 PM
  #15
Weanling
I do agree that she needs basic training....to be supple etc. I've got to go work a few horses...I look forward to the other responses.
     
    10-16-2011, 04:32 PM
  #16
Trained
Alright, I'll step in.

First off, do work on your entries...On your other thread about her being hot, you heard me talking on how to fix that, so I won't type it all out to sound like a broken record

Leads. Always try to have your correct lead when going in. If that means you have to stop and circle, then stop and circle. I do that with my horses because I want to be sure, not because they don't know their leads, but because accidents can happen. That, and circling until they relax helps keep a horse calm. My gelding always took off like a bat out of hell so I started circling him and only letting him run when I was sure he was listening to me.

Like others have said, I don't see sour, I see frustrated. Try grabbing the horn with one hand and using your other hand and your legs to guide her instead. I know its hard your first time not to get on your horses face....I've been there, even now on my gaming mare I want to grab her face because there are times when I think she's getting out of control....It's not like its an out of the ordinary, you're-such-a-terrible-rider thing...If anyone tries to tell you they don't want to do that, then they're lying, because at some point in their lives they have.

Focus is very key in this sport. Everything is going to happen very fast. You can't hesitate and you have to keep your mind clear...Don't let the adrenaline or the speed psyche you out, because that's where you'll make mistakes. To this day I have to smack myself back into focus and remind myself what me and my horse needs. One day my trainer told me the best thing I've ever heard, when I was having a bad day and not making any turns right...I thought really hard about it, made a perfect turn and she stopped me right there.

"Your amount of ability didn't improve. Your horse's level of training didn't improve. You're focus is what made that turn happen."

I would work a lot on reinforcing her slow rate. You said she's been off for two years, right? Take her up to some barrels and just stop next to them. Focus on making it smooth, shoulder lifted up, hip in, inside leg up underneath her. Dena Kirkpatrick 101, it has changed my way of thinking about the turn.



Are you familiar with teh ART of Barrel racing? Approach, rate, and turn.

Approach -

Your widest point is when you are approaching. Come in on the correct lead, keep some inside flexion, use your inside leg and rein to set her up for the turn. You see people who are using their inside rein (Like in Dena's video above) and that is not a neck rein nor a direct rein; it is an aiding rein. The rein is loose through the turn, but the signal is just enough that it pulls the shoulder up into position. About ten feet away I start applying my inside leg to my horses and getting the bend, then when I pick my rate point, I move on to the next step.

Rate -

Argueably the most important part of the turn. I say "Argueably" because some people have not agreed with me, but whatever.

When you rate, there needs to be a significant change in speed. Work on this at the walk and trot. The trot for me is most effective. Trot up, really strong and posting. Make the trot fast. Then pick your rate point and it down. At that point your horse should slow down to a jog for the turn. At that point, I chant in my head "Western pleasure...western pleasure..."

This is the same with any gait. There should always be a significant change in speed when you hit that rate point.

Turn -

This is just going to turn right back to Dena's video on the one smooth motion turn. Now, not all of us are going to have great turns like that...But the position is the same. Make it smooth. Think of the position!

Just a couple excersizes to do is ignore the barrels for awhile. Lope straight lines, right to the fence and stop. Practice turning on the rail and going in a straight line....If you can't lope a straight line, you aren't going to have any success in any sport.

Same with circles. Get the arena sand a little wet so you can see your tracks, and try to make the most perfect circles you can with inside flexion, hip in, inside leg up under her! Just these little basics is what we all need, and it'll help you a lot I think.
     
    10-16-2011, 11:17 PM
  #17
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by SorrelHorse    
Alright, I'll step in.

First off, do work on your entries...On your other thread about her being hot, you heard me talking on how to fix that, so I won't type it all out to sound like a broken record

Leads. Always try to have your correct lead when going in. If that means you have to stop and circle, then stop and circle. I do that with my horses because I want to be sure, not because they don't know their leads, but because accidents can happen. That, and circling until they relax helps keep a horse calm. My gelding always took off like a bat out of hell so I started circling him and only letting him run when I was sure he was listening to me.

Like others have said, I don't see sour, I see frustrated. Try grabbing the horn with one hand and using your other hand and your legs to guide her instead. I know its hard your first time not to get on your horses face....I've been there, even now on my gaming mare I want to grab her face because there are times when I think she's getting out of control....It's not like its an out of the ordinary, you're-such-a-terrible-rider thing...If anyone tries to tell you they don't want to do that, then they're lying, because at some point in their lives they have.

Focus is very key in this sport. Everything is going to happen very fast. You can't hesitate and you have to keep your mind clear...Don't let the adrenaline or the speed psyche you out, because that's where you'll make mistakes. To this day I have to smack myself back into focus and remind myself what me and my horse needs. One day my trainer told me the best thing I've ever heard, when I was having a bad day and not making any turns right...I thought really hard about it, made a perfect turn and she stopped me right there.

"Your amount of ability didn't improve. Your horse's level of training didn't improve. You're focus is what made that turn happen."

I would work a lot on reinforcing her slow rate. You said she's been off for two years, right? Take her up to some barrels and just stop next to them. Focus on making it smooth, shoulder lifted up, hip in, inside leg up underneath her. Dena Kirkpatrick 101, it has changed my way of thinking about the turn.

Achieving a One Smooth Motion Turn - YouTube


Are you familiar with teh ART of Barrel racing? Approach, rate, and turn.

Approach -

Your widest point is when you are approaching. Come in on the correct lead, keep some inside flexion, use your inside leg and rein to set her up for the turn. You see people who are using their inside rein (Like in Dena's video above) and that is not a neck rein nor a direct rein; it is an aiding rein. The rein is loose through the turn, but the signal is just enough that it pulls the shoulder up into position. About ten feet away I start applying my inside leg to my horses and getting the bend, then when I pick my rate point, I move on to the next step.

Rate -

Argueably the most important part of the turn. I say "Argueably" because some people have not agreed with me, but whatever.

When you rate, there needs to be a significant change in speed. Work on this at the walk and trot. The trot for me is most effective. Trot up, really strong and posting. Make the trot fast. Then pick your rate point and it down. At that point your horse should slow down to a jog for the turn. At that point, I chant in my head "Western pleasure...western pleasure..."

This is the same with any gait. There should always be a significant change in speed when you hit that rate point.

Turn -

This is just going to turn right back to Dena's video on the one smooth motion turn. Now, not all of us are going to have great turns like that...But the position is the same. Make it smooth. Think of the position!

Just a couple excersizes to do is ignore the barrels for awhile. Lope straight lines, right to the fence and stop. Practice turning on the rail and going in a straight line....If you can't lope a straight line, you aren't going to have any success in any sport.

Same with circles. Get the arena sand a little wet so you can see your tracks, and try to make the most perfect circles you can with inside flexion, hip in, inside leg up under her! Just these little basics is what we all need, and it'll help you a lot I think.

Thank you!..I'm going to print part of this out so I can look at them and try it and get it drilled in my head.

I apperciate that you didn't point out all the negatives things.
It was my first time so kinda need to be given a break :P

And you know I decided to do this cause of a fundrasier and my friends...They got me into this and I really enjoy it.I know Gidget does too.It may not look like it but she was in a fantastic mood that day and she would listen to my cues of slowing down from trotting and going into a canter in the warm up arena. I think when she saw all the horses really got herself all excited as well.
     
    10-16-2011, 11:25 PM
  #18
Trained
I think everyone already hit the negative things enough so I don't need to go back over them. I can still try and help you at TDSC too if you want.
     
    10-16-2011, 11:34 PM
  #19
Green Broke
Really? I know I am not perfect. I would like help. There is never enough things to learn. I may not be the best rider,my horse may not be super fast but we make a good team and she really tries her best. I work on things and only become better.
     
    10-16-2011, 11:39 PM
  #20
Trained
Yeah, you two really are a good match. Not knowing isn't one of the seven deadly sins as people make it out to be :P My trainer of 50+ years repeatedly says that even she learns new things from her horses and her riders every single day.

I'll probably be there super early so there'll be plenty of time before and in between events where we can work our horses together It would benefit Bailey too, because she needs to learn to slow down just like Gidget does.

Are you going to do all the events, or just some of them? I'm not sure if I'm doing everything yet. I'm going to bring both my horses just in case and then decide when I get there.
     

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