Breeding my paint/percheron mare
 
 

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Breeding my paint/percheron mare

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    08-04-2012, 01:16 PM
  #1
Foal
Breeding my paint/percheron mare

I have a nice 16.1h black tobiano paint/percheron mare we are thinking about breeding. What are some good breeds to consider crossing her with or breeds to stay away from? I would like a lighter built baby that is athletic and has a good mind. Any suggestions are appreciated

Below is a picture of my mare, penny. (yes she is very fat :)

Penny eyes.jpg
     
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    08-04-2012, 01:23 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Hmm.. I don't know how much help I can be, but considering she is a draft breed, I don't know how much of a LIGHTER breed baby you can get.... obviously breed her to a normal sized type of horse:) lol
     
    08-04-2012, 01:45 PM
  #3
Trained
Breed her to a Quarter Horse
     
    08-04-2012, 01:47 PM
  #4
Trained
I think the most natural crosses would be a paint or TB.
Mixing too many breeds increases the chances of a badly conformed foal.
That's just my opinion though. A QH would also be a good cross. Shalom
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    08-04-2012, 01:52 PM
  #5
Trained
TB's and Arabians usually cross nicely to heavy mares, to produce a more refined baby. TB to keep the height, or Arabian to breed it down some. Some warmbloods will also refine their foals (although the one I knew of that did it consistently was actually Trakehner/Anglo Arabian) with the added benefit of adding some breeding that was bred to perform in English disciplines, thus adding some value (note, some, not a lot) to the foal.

This foal would likely be a grade, unless there is a sport horse registry that is based on type more than actual breeding. Grades don't sell for much, in fact I know of people who are literally having to GIVE their grades away. In fact the economy is so rubbish, even quality, registered foals aren't selling very well. Several of my state's top warmblood breeders have closed down, and the rest are severely cutting back on the numbers they're producing. Prices are down, sales rates are WAY down. It's a buyer's market.

You may not intend to sell this foal but you can't see the future, you can't know that you're going to be financially able to properly care for it. For the foal's sake, breed to something that will gain you a BREED registry, and if nothing that will refine the foal will allow a partbred registration, then don't breed at all. If it CAN be registered, get it registered. If it's only in the planning phase, put steps in place to ENSURE it can be registered.

I'm not telling you what to do with your mare, of course, just asking that you consider the value (and, following, chances of a good life - foals worth $$$ have a better chance of ending up in a knowledgeable home) of any resulting foal :)

And, when it comes to choosing stallions, consider your mare's conformational faults and ensure you breed to something that is exceptional in those areas. Consider your mare's conformational strengths, and ensure that she doesn't have any faults in areas where the stallion is not as strong. If you don't know about conformation - ask us! HF has some real experts.

EDIT; when crossing heavy to light, always ALWAYS ALWAYS cross blood over bone - or, in more simple terms, the lighter horse the stud, the heavier one the mare. Horses that are crossed bone over blood seem to have more of a likelihood of turning out fugly than those crossed blood over bone. We used to have a breeder in our state who bred some of the best Clydesdale-cross sporthorses in the country, one of which is now competing at CCI** in eventing, and in her 30+ years of breeding them, she had consistent great results with a lighter stallion and heavier mares. Sadly the GFC forced her to shut down her breeding operation, which is a **** shame because I would have LOVED one of her horses. There is some Appy blood in the two star horse, but not much - just enough to give him spots! Oddly, the colts from that mare and stallion are all spotted, and the fillies are all solid. If you're curious, Google his name - GeeJay Jackson :)
     
    08-04-2012, 02:45 PM
  #6
Started
Cute mare, but is she breeding worthy? Can't tell by the pictures. If you are not sure, post some good conformation shots of her here and we could help you point out her weak and strong points. Then, when you decide upon a few possible studs, we might be able to suggest the best ones for your mare.

However, are you familiar with taking care of and foaling out a mare? Are you set up for foaling? Are you experienced in raising and training a foal? Lots to consider.

And I agree with everything blue eyed pony has said.

Lizzie
     
    08-04-2012, 02:55 PM
  #7
Green Broke
You may not intend to sell this foal but you can't see the future, you can't know that you're going to be financially able to properly care for it. For the foal's sake, breed to something that will gain you a BREED registry, and if nothing that will refine the foal will allow a partbred registration, then don't breed at all. If it CAN be registered, get it registered. If it's only in the planning phase, put steps in place to ENSURE it can be registered.

I'm not telling you what to do with your mare, of course, just asking that you consider the value (and, following, chances of a good life - foals worth $$$ have a better chance of ending up in a knowledgeable home) of any resulting foal :)


Read more:
http://www.horseforum.com/draft-horses/breeding-my-paint-percheron-mare-133466/#ixzz22ba3eUiB<

So very and sadly true.
     
    08-04-2012, 03:02 PM
  #8
Started
I forgot to add. Welcome to our forum, pennyforthought.

Has your mare been tested for LWO? If you are not familiar with that, google it and make sure you test before even considering breeding. She probably isn't, but it's possible and you don't want a disaster at the end of a year of waiting for the foal to be born.

Lizzie
     
    08-04-2012, 03:27 PM
  #9
Trained
Yep I second FF, test for lethal white. And/or breed to a breed that doesn't have it. I think with the amount of white on her shoulder/neck, this mare SHOULD have fully unbroken white on her front legs at least, and the colour is trying to stay there and cut off the white... a frame (lethal white) trait. Although there is nothing suggesting LWO in her face marking.

Beware, though - it can and does hide in solid coloured horses, because lethal white (also known as the frame gene) doesn't express much on the coat unless there's another pinto gene present.

As far as I'm aware, frame doesn't exist in Arabians (which have lavender foal syndrome instead) and Welsh Ponies (of the various sections, including cobs), but DOES exist in Thoroughbreds, and theoretically could exist in warmbloods and most other breeds.

However, best bet is to test her, and if she's N/N, it's not a problem. If she's N/O, then she should be bred ONLY to a stallion that's genetically tested N/N, and/or of a breed that doesn't have the frame gene at all.

Edit to add; the test for frame is around $25USD from UC Davis, so it's not expensive, and nothing in comparison to the heartbreak and expense of waiting 11 months for a foal which is born with an incomplete digestive tract and has to be euthanised to avoid it dying in agony from horrible, incurable colic.

Frame is ALWAYS lethal in any horse that is O/O meaning homozygous or carrying two copies of the gene. N/O is non-lethal, and therefore safe EXCEPT it's necessary to know if the horse is to be bred from whether it carries it or not so that you can avoid the heartbreaking O/O outcome by not breeding to another N/O horse. N/O to N/N you have absolutely no chance of O/O, N/O to N/O gives you 25% chance or 1 in 4 foals dead. So, if your mare carries it, never EVER breed to a stallion with an unknown frame status, or one that's tested as N/O. If she doesn't, you're ok, except that the foal has a 50% chance of carrying a LWO gene if the N/N mare is bred to an N/O stallion.

Lethal white seems to be an incomplete dominant, in that it expresses some with one copy, and more with a second... but the problem with the extra expression in an O/O horse is that it affects the formation of the GI tract.
     
    08-04-2012, 03:56 PM
  #10
Foal
Thank you everyone for the tips! Again, I am not definite that I am breeding her but I truly appreciate all the advice, expecially blue eyed pony. Even though I would plan to keep the foal if she had one, I wouldn't want the baby to end up in a bad home if we did have to sell her. You stated some very good points, and I really appreciate and agree with your advice. Also, here are some extra info on penny. She came from south dakota and was a PMU foal. When she was about 2 she was bought by a family to south georgia. Then, when she was 3 she was bought by my riding teacher in cumming georgia to be trained to be a lesson horse. Then sadly, because she developed allergies to all the dust at the farm (dust arena, dirt pastures, dust everywere) she was given to us so she could be in grass pastures, which thankfully has seemed to stop any of the breathing problems she had previously. She is one of the kindest and most gentle horses I've ever met and will jump the moon if you can get her to :) I understand If it is not in her or the foals best interest to breed, but she's just one of those horses you only get the pleasure of meeting once in a lifetime. I am not an experienced breeder, in fact this will be my first foal if I do decide to breed her. However, I do have many friends that have plenty of experience in the subject and I am willing to wait until I have the knowledge to make the best decision until I breed her.
Btw here is the web address to a video of her about 3 years ago when she lived in georgia.
     

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