do draft crosses show qualities that might make them good dressage horses? - Page 4
 
 

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do draft crosses show qualities that might make them good dressage horses?

This is a discussion on do draft crosses show qualities that might make them good dressage horses? within the Draft Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Draft horse olympics warmblood
  • How to make a dressage horse prance

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    02-17-2012, 05:22 PM
  #31
Yearling
Maybe it's DNZ that have asked him if he would like to attend.

There are Olympic level horses that are draft crosses! The Friesian is a draft but does a great job of dressage.

Warmbloods are just a mixture of Hot & cold blood horses - Hot being the TB & Arab and cold being the draft horses.

True a horse built and moving to do a particular job will be more succesful as in all disciplines.

My Clydesdale can piaffe in the paddock when the mood takes her - she needs to get pretty excited though! Her extended trot is lovely and we are working on this at the moment on the lunge.

She tracks up beautifully in working paces and carries herself nicely. At some time I will try to get a movie of her working. We start dressage competitions this coming winter. She also jumps - out of her paddock.

I'm currently trying to decide what we plan to do in the future show wise. Clipped right out she is a lovely heavyweight hunter type. With feather she is a prime example of a Clydesdale. Sadly I can't do both successfully - feather on for one discipline and off for the other.
     
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    02-17-2012, 05:26 PM
  #32
Yearling
Anabel - the horses centre of balance changes as the horse progresses through its training.

All start under saddle on the forehand and with correct schooling the centre of balance changes as the hind end becomes more active and further under the horse.

I've noticed a big change in my Clydesdale - I don't hear her like I used to - she is working so much more from behind as her schooling is progressing that her shoulders are lighter and footfalls more quiet.

When a horse is ridden - it's not pulling a load - the rider asks for a totally different response.
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    02-17-2012, 05:26 PM
  #33
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
you wouldn't use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail
Good job you put it that way around, folks around here call screws crinkle cut nails and hammer them in!
     
    02-17-2012, 05:36 PM
  #34
Trained
I know a grade pony that has successfully competed at Grand Prix. Does that mean all grade ponies can do Grand Prix??? No.

Also, depending on which FEI judge you talk to there is a large debate on the correctness of how Fresians move WRT dressage. My friend who has shown two Fresians in PSG has gotten scores from a panel on the same test ranging 10% (from 55% to 65%, for example), sometimes more (!) because of the wide disagreement in dressage circles about their movement.

Warmbloods also are NOT just a mixture of hot and cold blood. It's not like water. They were developed from "the best" riding horses in Europe with Arabian and Thoroughbred blood intermmitently added by the studbook to refine and create a more athletic horse. While at the very beginning of some breeds, work horses were used as foundation stock, they were quickly refined with cavalry and riding stock.
You cannot cross a draft horse with a TB and call it a warmblood. Again with the thousands of years of breeding argument. For thousands of years, drafts were bred to pull. For thousands of years, TBs were bred to race. Crossing them does not magically make a dressage or jumping horse, or a "warmblood" for that matter. Warmbloods themselves have also been bred and refined for thousands of years for the purpose of riding and sport.

Piaffe in the field is rarely correct, even by a warmblood. It is usually prancing, out behind and while that's awesome your horse can prance like 99.9% of all other horses in the world, it still does not prove that drafts are born and destined for the international dressage ring.
Just like how 99.9% of horses in the world can prance, 99.9% can also perform working paces undersaddle and do a lower level dressage test.
     
    02-17-2012, 05:37 PM
  #35
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
Good job you put it that way around, folks around here call screws crinkle cut nails and hammer them in!
ROFL!! I will have to use that hahahaha
     
    02-17-2012, 05:43 PM
  #36
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
Anabel - the horses centre of balance changes as the horse progresses through its training.

All start under saddle on the forehand and with correct schooling the centre of balance changes as the hind end becomes more active and further under the horse.

I've noticed a big change in my Clydesdale - I don't hear her like I used to - she is working so much more from behind as her schooling is progressing that her shoulders are lighter and footfalls more quiet.

When a horse is ridden - it's not pulling a load - the rider asks for a totally different response.
Thousands of years, the breeding, of draft horses, has been so that their center of gravity is most comfortable/so shifted that he can pull.
Thousands of years, the breeding, of warmbloods, has been so that their center of gravity is most comfortable/so shifted that he can collect.
How many more times must I itterate this!!??

Do not tell me that this:

And this:


Are both starting from the same "balance point" naturally...


And yes, you are correct, dressage schooling will improve the way of going of any horse. Your horse improving because of dressage training does not mean it has potential for the upper levels, it just means it has 4 legs and is classified as "equine"!!
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    02-17-2012, 05:57 PM
  #37
Yearling
Anabel - you really need to study the origins of horses more in depth - the TB only came into being around the turn of the 17th century with the introduction of the Byerley Turk, Darley Arabian and Godolphin Arabian.
Trackheners around 1732, Hanovarian 1837, Holstein - one of the older originating in the 13th century.
ALL originated from crossing the draft horses with TB's & Arabians to improve the quality without losing the strength, soundness, endurance and tractability for army remounts.
The modern warmblood is nothing like its ancestors as most are now so overbred with TB's that they are losing if not lost their strength.

Have alook at this horse - what would you consider its breeding? It's a yearling in this pic
     
    02-17-2012, 05:59 PM
  #38
Yearling
What levels of dressage are we talking about here? I like draft crosses as much as the next person who owns a draft cross, but I don't remember seeing any at international level dressage competitions, the WEG or Olympics or whatever. Do you?
     
    02-17-2012, 06:05 PM
  #39
Trained
Sorry, hundreds. Still, two hundred years of careful breeding with the finest of riding horses, thoroughbreds and arabians is A LOT different than crudely crossing a TB and a draft, as comparing the picture you posted to a picture of this modern Hanoverian:

Clearly shows.

I also see no lost strength when a horse like this:

Can jump a fence over 7' high. (Ben Maher in 2010 at the WEG Puissance)


Yes, the ORIGINS of the horses included SOME draft breeding at the very foundation, however there was also a broad base of riding and cavarly horses used and they have all since been refined with TB and Arabian blood.
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    02-17-2012, 06:35 PM
  #40
Yearling
There was nothing 'crude' about the crossing of draft and TB in the breeding of the filly in the picture - the sire TB has progeny competing well in all disciplines. As a foal she won several championships in hand as a saddle hunter - I turned down $10,000 for her as a weanling as I have a rider to jump her - she has been jumping paddock gates since a foal. As a foal at a show earlier in the season she beat the eventual winner of the Supreme Sport Horse foal at Horse of the Year.
As a yearling she competed once and was again Champion Saddle Hunter youngster.

A lot of modern warmbloods look just like TB's and behave like them too.
     

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