Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses - Page 12 - The Horse Forum
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post #111 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 10:28 PM
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Sharpie, glad to hear how well trained they are - it's unfortunate they aren't perfect. But to be honest - that's just their nature. For generations we've designed dogs to be the way they are - we have no right to complain about how they turn out. We just have to buy the ones that match our lives best. It stinks that due to their nature they're making their own lives less comfortable, but I'm sure they're happy despite it all.
If you were the type to truly be bothered by not being able to leave the dog outside then perhaps a different breed would have been a better choice? But it doesn't seem to upset you quite that much :)
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post #112 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpie View Post
Alas, both my dogs have a solid leave it command as well as their beds. In fact, if I am standing near them, they seldom bark without checking to see if I see what they are thinking of barking at first. If I already know about it, they know they don't need to alert me to it- because I've already got it covered.

The problem is if I am inside and they are not, they will happily 'defend' our home and alert me so that I can come out and help. They are very considerate and concerned for our group safety, you see. If I come to the door, unless they've actually caught something, they come running to me, and then back to whatever it was they were alerting on to show me unless I tell them to go inside or do something else.

Or I could say the problem really is that when I want to put them out to do their business while I take a shower. ;) It makes it difficult for me to put them out so they can enjoy the nice weather and has turned them both into 99% house dogs for fear of noise complaints.
your problem is that you have TWO dogs. they feed off of each others excitement. i too understand the noise complaint issue. i had that problem. and i live in the country.

do you believe training collars (shock collars) are cruel?
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post #113 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 10:29 PM
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Dead - if you want the dogs to be nocturnal and they are then what's the problem? You're contradicting yourself.
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post #114 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 10:32 PM
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I think shock collars can be very effective in the right hands. I just think that most people's timing and training skills are so terrible that they shouldn't be allowed to use them. I prefer more fool-proof options like electric fences, scatmats (shock mats) or sound activated bark collars that always have perfect timing. Animal does X, then Y always happens- makes for a much less confused and stressed animal.
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post #115 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 10:49 PM
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you're an idiot.
Yup, that about covers it
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post #116 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 10:59 PM
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Not gonna lie. I skipped the last couple of pages of this thread. Mainly because its the same as the other pages.

However. Docking a horse or dog tail to me is abuse. As is declawing a cat. Declawing a cat actually causes SEVERE arthritis in cats as it changes the entire way they walk. The SPCA actually will not adopt a cat out to someone if they say they are going to declaw it. There is this wonderful and magical thing called Soft Paws http://www.softpaws.com/ They take 10 minutes to put on and they last for a month or two. I love them. No more clawing furniture, and it doesn't cause the cat any long term harm.

I am not even going to touch the tail docking issue.

I don't understand why we as humans think it is okay to change the way God has created living beings. A tail does no harm. If a horses tail is in the way, then braid it. It takes 10 seconds. Just about the length of time it would take you to spray fly spray.

My animals stay the way they came to me. My rabbit lives like a cat having full run of the house, my dog thinks she is part rabbit, part cat and part human. If you tried to tell her she is a dog she would laugh at you. And my animals are perfectly happy, perfectly healthy and cause no damage to my house.

I can only wait for the day that Canada bans these barbaric traditions.
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post #117 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 11:39 PM
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Well I have 2 docked dogs running about my house that certainly seem perfectly happy and perfectly healthy as well. They came to me that way, I didn't cut their tails off but I do love this breed and have owned them for 35 years. I guess I am used to the tail less variety of dog. Once they come to me, they are family members, not just pets. They are spoiled like crazy and I doubt they sit around thinking "my life would be more complete, if only I had a tail"

I totally agree with the no docking a horse. I am still confused as to why they need to be docked at all?

I also owned declawed cat (rescues that were done when I got them) none of them had arthritis in their feet. They lived full lives as well. Working in rescue, it was amazing how many cats were dumped for scratching things up in their homes. I am not saying it is right, but I still think that it beats the alternative in many cases. I wish my current cat were declawed. She has destroyed many chairs by jumping on them and sliding down with the claws. She is a nice cat but... claws are not making me happy. I have not tried the glue on nail caps but have heard some bad things about those so... not sure how comfy those are to wear? I do trim her nails every other week. It is amazing how fast those things grow. For now, I just deal with the scratched up pieces of furniture as she limits it to a few (so far) I will likely never get another cat with claws though.
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post #118 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 11:54 PM
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I have never heard anything bad about soft paws. I worked at a few different shelters and they all recommend them. As I said there are a lot of rescues that will not adopt a cat to you if you have plans to declaw, and they do ask.

I also don't know many vets that will perform it either. It changes the entire way the cat walks. It puts severe pressure on their joints.

Quote:
A study of 163 cats that underwent onychectomy, published in the Jul/Aug 1994 Journal of Veterinary Surgery, showed that 50% suffered from immediate postoperative complications, such as pain, hemorrhage, and lameness; and long-term complications including prolonged lameness, were found in nearly 20% of the 121 cats who were followed up in the study.

In a study published in the January 2001 JAVMA, 33% of 39 cats that underwent onychectomy developed at least one behavior change immediately after surgery, with the most common problems being litter box problems and biting.

In a study published October 2001 JAVMA by Dr. Gary J. Patronek VMD, PhD., he states that declawed cats are at an increased risk of relinquishment.
The Truth About Declawing

I can link you to THOUSANDS more articles and studies.

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post #119 of 148 Old 11-03-2012, 11:57 PM
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Also if you provide a cat a proper living area they will not have the urge to claw furniture. Give them lots of places to climb, different surfaces that are cat friendly to scratch and there should be limited issues.

And if one goes on to say "I am not going out of my way for a cat" then why even have one? Would you deprive your horse of proper turn out? A proper stall or shelter? Deprive them of proper shoeing?

Quote:
Drop the euphemism “declawing” which denotes a mere nail removal and call it what it really is—partial digital amputation.

Explain that declawing is equivalent to amputating a person’s finger or toe at the first knuckle.

Inform the cat owner that declawing can result in some very unpleasant changes in personality and behavior.

Describe the requirements for a cat-appealing scratching post and how to encourage the cat to use it. (It should be tall and sturdy and covered with sisal material or sisal rope—not carpeting.)
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post #120 of 148 Old 11-04-2012, 12:07 AM
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In a study published October 2001 JAVMA by Dr. Gary J. Patronek VMD, PhD., he states that declawed cats are at an increased risk of relinquishment.
That one I find very very hard to believe as the declawed cats are much much harder to find around here in any rescues. There are literally thousands of cats in this area looking for homes. We do free spay/neuters through Cats Anonymous by the hundreds each time but the numbers are still out of control. It is NOT the declawed cats that are finding their ways into shelters around here. Maybe were you are from things are different.

Again, I didn't have my cats declawed, I am dealing with the damage from this cat and my other one came to me without claws but from my very limited experience with cats in my home, the declawed cat had no more problems physically then the one with claws, she just didn't damage anything while she was here.

It is odd how from area to area it is different. There are tons of vets here that will declaw cats and many who recommend it. The ones involved in rescue with me in fact are recommending it. I think from their perspective it is better to have a cat in a home with no claws then one looking for a home that doesn't exsist for it while keeping it's claws. I have seen several kittens in the clinic right after having it done and they were bouncing about their kennels chasing little toy mice around. They didn't appear too much worse for wear.

Again, I am not saying it is the best scenerio, I don't think it is but we don't live in the best scenerio. I would rather see a cat go through the proceedure if it can get them a loving home with people who care about it then to see it die in a shelter or be tossed out into the cold just because it has claws and the people either have no interest in dealing with it or don't know how to deal with it.
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