Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses - Page 5
 
 

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Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses

This is a discussion on Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses within the Draft Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Why crop horses tail syndrome
  • Why crop draft horses tails

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    11-03-2012, 06:21 AM
  #41
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
wrong.

There are very good reasons for docking tails and even ears. Most do it for vainity. Which is myself. Yet I admit to it. But other than that there are reasons. Keep searching. You did not dig hard enough. Its there. Heres a hint. Has to do with hunting. Course ya'll have lost that right to.
.
Don't be so arrogant to think I do not know what I am talking about and for your interest I do hunt with hounds which you are obviously unaware still happens.

The good reasons for docking are very rare and based on injuries to tails but hunting and working dogs are generally not docked and amazingly enough the said inuries are very rare.
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    11-03-2012, 10:36 AM
  #42
Green Broke
Well..I can't help but think that there's nothing to complain about. If someone wants to crop their Dane's ears, who has the right to tell them they can't? Danes often get ear infections, and the cropping of their ears greatly reduce that chance. I can't say much on the topic of docking a dog's tail, since our beagles don't get docked since they're far from the rabbit we're shooting. But, if I had a working draft, be it for logging, carriage rides, etc, I would dock their tail. That horse is obviously a working horse for me, to help ME make money. Why on earth would I waste time I could be working to braid that horse's giant draft tail? I wouldn't, there just isn't enough time in the day. Of course I would take responsibility that they cannot swish flies, so they will have a stall during the day and fly spray like no other while they're working. BUT, it is not cruel if you own up to the fact that you ought to go out of your way to make that horse comfortable now..not a prince/princess, but comfortable from the flies it would have been able to swish away had you not altered it.

As for the debarking, declawing, and neuter/spay..I agree with Dead Rabbit. A dog (or even a horse, to be honest), was made with reproductive organs, but they were also made with full ears and tails. We're fine to take away their reproduction for our sake (yes, that includes overpopulation, we aren't god, so we shouldn't try to control that, right?), but we cannot crop their ears for cosmetic or health reasons, or dock their tails for hunting, cosmetic, or the fact that when he wags it he causes bruises on everyone it hits? I'm truely not seeing the difference.
In my honest opinion, animals are pretty much only here to breed...they have nothing else on their minds unless a human interjects. If we want our dog to look a certain way, do you think the dog gives a rat's ass? The dog won't remember but for a split second that it's tail was cut, or it's ears were cropped, they don't dwell on things like we do.
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    11-03-2012, 10:51 AM
  #43
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
wrong.

there are very good reasons for docking tails and even ears. Most do it for vainity. Which is myself. Yet I admit to it. But other than that there are reasons. Keep searching. You did not dig hard enough. Its there. Heres a hint. Has to do with hunting. Course ya'll have lost that right to.

Still............God gave that animal reproductive organs to produce. Gave them heat cycles to reproduce quite often actually. And spaying and neutering takes this away. Im the cruel one for clipping an ear, or cutting a tail for vanity sake, for health reasons, or for show standard.....yet you take away reproduction, and this ruins an animal forever. Some may claiim your playing God. Shame, shame.
Didn't do any harm to my husband removing certain bits of his 'repro' ability, but if I chopped off his ears, part of an arm, his fingers and toe nails and his voice box and somehow don't think he would be quite the same guy anymore. At least he wouldn't get anything caught in machinery, and he couldn't yell at me and he probably couldn't hear if I yelled at him so perhaps I am coming around to your way of thinking but only for humans...LOL Seriously though, mutilation for the sake of human vanity is not necessary and it is regarded as animal cruelty. There really is no reason or any argument you could ever give (apart from a genuine medical reason) that will ever make me and my country 'Merry Old England' change our minds. I am proud to be British! I will continue to pray that more countries make it against the law. One day, perhaps not in my lifetime, we will have a wonderful world.
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    11-03-2012, 11:17 AM
  #44
Trained
I would never declaw my cat; however, this is a life-saving surgery for many cats. Cats that destroy curtains and furniture are often euthanized for their behavior. I was against the procedure until I realized that the choice was between declawing and death.
     
    11-03-2012, 11:49 AM
  #45
Trained
It isn't just England, I live in Saskatchewan and we no longer have cropping or docking, and my vet for one is relieved, if the vets are against it I guess that the benefits aren't universally recognized.

When it comes to neutering and spaying, I don't do it purely for my convenience, the ability to reproduce gives the urge to reproduce, which leads to endless frustration and the problems that causes.

The one that comes half way in between for me is dew claw removal, I don't like dew claws, I think that they get damaged to easily, the last two pups I have bought didn't have them done in the first couple of days so they have to keep them, because it becomes a big OP as they get older.
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    11-03-2012, 12:01 PM
  #46
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
wrong.

there are very good reasons for docking tails and even ears. Most do it for vainity. Which is myself. Yet I admit to it. But other than that there are reasons. Keep searching. You did not dig hard enough. Its there. Heres a hint. Has to do with hunting. Course ya'll have lost that right to.

Still............God gave that animal reproductive organs to produce. Gave them heat cycles to reproduce quite often actually. And spaying and neutering takes this away. Im the cruel one for clipping an ear, or cutting a tail for vanity sake, for health reasons, or for show standard.....yet you take away reproduction, and this ruins an animal forever. Some may claiim your playing God. Shame, shame.
If there wasn't a way to put a hamper on reproducing, do you know how many animals the world would have? Too many. There would be so many abuse cases the SPCA would be drowning up to their ears in them. An animal isn't "ruined" because it can't reproduce anymore. You can still eat a cow, you can still ride a gelding, you can still pet your dog or your cat. Let's look at how many horses are sent to slaughter every year, or many of them are left abandoned, or reported abused. The world would have so many of them no one would know what to do. But aside from that, how would you feel if I thought you would look better with one leg, or only one ear and just cut off the things that I thought weren't necessary? Besides the fact that that would be extremely painful, I'm taking away a part of your body. So don't try to make any of this look better by pointing fingers at other people.
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    11-03-2012, 12:02 PM
  #47
Yearling
I currently have a cat that I rescued that has claws and I HATE that. IT has damaged so much stuff in my house. YES, I have scratching pads, Yes, I have toys, have taken time to train and to redirect. The damage isn't intentional, it is from jumping, climbing etc... It isn't the cats fault but I do wish it was declawed. I do know, I will NEVER again get a cat that has any claws. My last cat, also a rescue had no claws, lived a full life and was a very happy outgoing creature who never did any damage in the house. Well, other then opening food bags with her teeth as she was a food seeking missile.

I do chuckle as people who think they are spaying or neutering an animal and acting as though it isn't "their choice' or "convenient" because I have animals that are in tact who don't run about making unwanted babies. It is called "managing your pet" and yes, it takes extra work but it can be done.

Spaying or neutering so you don't have to be responsible for keeping your pet away from breeding is no different then docking or debarking for your convenience.

That said, I am all for fixing ones pets as most people are too darn lazy or incapable of keeping track of their pets and not allowing them to breed Willy nilly.
     
    11-03-2012, 12:03 PM
  #48
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
as for being in merry ol england. Well I aint there. Got no desire to ever even visit. And this country broke away to have its freedoms it has now. Hopefully we are able to keep enjoying these freedoms till GOD sees fit to end it all.

The US broke away from the UK a long time before they banned docking and other cosmetic surgeries on animals. These are laws that came about under cruelty to animals acts and pushed by majority opinion.
It doesnt take more than a few minutes to shave a horses tail if you want to protect it from machinery/harness and yet carriage horses are shown & worked with full tails and mostly always have been whereas cobs were docked 'because it made them look smarter'
If an owner takes responsibility to protect his docked horse from flies in the summer that might seem OK but what happens when that horse gets sold on to someone less caring or as a pasture pet that can't enjoy living as a pasture pet because its tormented by bugs - bad enough for a horse with a tail so would be hell for one without one.
Hunts are still thriving in the UK and people still use dogs to flush out game for shooting and if you can prove that the dog is going to be used for that purpose its legal to have it docked as that will actually cause less suffering than it ripping its tail on undergrowth.
BTW In the larger view of things you are no more free here than we are in the UK. I've now lived in both countries so able to have a reasonable view and opinion on this.
Royal Artillery horses in harness - and they all have tails and always have had
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    11-03-2012, 04:05 PM
  #49
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celeste    
I would never declaw my cat; however, this is a life-saving surgery for many cats. Cats that destroy curtains and furniture are often euthanized for their behavior. I was against the procedure until I realized that the choice was between declawing and death.
If you are houseproud, you shouldn't have animals then there would never be a problem. De-clawing is illegal in the UK and probably Canada too!
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    11-03-2012, 04:12 PM
  #50
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydee    
.
BTW In the larger view of things you are no more free here than we are in the UK. I've now lived in both countries so able to have a reasonable view and opinion on this.
Shhhh don't tell anyone but Canada is really the land of the free, but we don't want too many people to know eh!
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