Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses - Page 9
 
 

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Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses

This is a discussion on Docking Tails in Show Horses/Everyday Horses within the Draft Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category

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        11-03-2012, 08:23 PM
      #81
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rbarlo32    
    Dead rabbit I have stated my logical reason behind me being against all of the above apart from for medical reasons.

    But here it is again
    Actually the bark of a dog has it's reasons, it allows them to communicate from a distance, say for instance you took your dog for a walk in the woods he/she got lost and couldn't see you how would you find them as they couldn't bark to tell the rest of their 'pack' where they were. Plus if the dog was trained right there would be enough barking to warrent a noise complaint. Taking the ears of a dog will reduce their ability to hear as they will not be able to funnel/catch the normal amount of sound waves plus with out any ears or a tail how are they going to be able to communicate. As stated above horses need their tails to protect them from flies they also use their tails to communicate with other animals.

    I also forgot to mention a dog needs its tail for balance, I know my collies wouldn't be able to do their jobs with out their tails. Cats need their claws as well so they can hold onto things when they fall or are jumping, if my cat didn't have claws I think she would have broken her back by now with the number of near misses when she justs.

    Dead rabbit I still fail to see the health benifits to debarking a dog, you to the dog right and they will not bark overly much.

    Sorry forgot to respond about the cats. Im not infavor of declawing. B/c I feel a cat belongs outside, killing vermin and snakes. That's their job. I have not had a cat in the house in over 20 yrs. But you can bet your bottom dollar, if a cat scratched my leather couch, she'd loose all 9 lives, in newyrk minute. But on a logical reasonable level, if I had a cat, in the house, I wouldnt have high dollar furnitcher either.

    Everything has its time and place.
         
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        11-03-2012, 08:30 PM
      #82
    Trained
    I'm a realist. I don't think death is such a horrid option either. As long as it is done humanely, while it may not be the choice I would make, I don't think it's cruel.

    I work on cattle stations where the cattle get some pretty brutal treatment for medical reasons. They are castrated without any kind of pain relief, ear marks are cut out of their ears, and they are dehorned either as calves, weaners, or the worst is clean skins who come in as adults. However i've also seen a cow with its horn growing into the back of its eye socket and pushing its eyeball out.

    My point is that I am aware of and have taken part in procedures that are painful for animals yet they are done out of necessity.

    Yet I personally disagree with cropping ears, docking tails, de-clawing and de-barking. Other people ar welcome to do so if it's legal but that doesn't mean I have to like it. In today's world where keeping pets is a choice, a luxury, not a necessity for most, I think it is completely unnecessary. I don't know if I would go so far as to say cruel but I certainly don't think it is right.
         
        11-03-2012, 08:37 PM
      #83
    Trained
    I brought up the declawing thing because it was a personal struggle for me. I vowed never to declaw a cat for anyone. Then I was working in a clinic and a woman brought a perfectly healthy cat in to be euthanized. I asked her why. She said that her husband was going to kill it with a baseball bat due to the damage that it did to his new furniture with its claws. This was 30 years ago back when nobody declawed cats. She was not even aware that it was a common practice. I suggested that she have it declawed instead. The tears started drying immediately. I did the surgery, and it saved that cat's life as surely as if I had removed a tumor. It would not be my choice for my cat. But it did save that cat's life.

    It is not as simple as it seems.
         
        11-03-2012, 08:38 PM
      #84
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
    logical reasons for doing this has already been stated by others here. Please re-read previous posts on previous pages.

    Of course everything I say is personal opinions. But I have logic backing them up. When it comes to dogs. I have personal hands on reasons for what I say. Not just emotional rants on what I personally feel whats right and wrong.
    See, this is what I don't understand. You accused me of making "venomous" comments, and then in every one of your replies back to me, you have made an insult towards me. Please, explain that.
         
        11-03-2012, 08:40 PM
      #85
    Yearling
    Just read this whole thread, thought I would throw in my two cents.

    I think that spaying, neutering, etc are in a different category than docking, cropping, etc. You fix your animals because you don't want even MORE accidental babies running around that won't find homes. Sure you can keep an eye on them, but whose to say your lady cat in heat (GOD they are irritating) won't run away to the neighbor's? Or the stallion down the road won't go crazy about your mare in heat, break the fence and come on over? Animals in heat, as well as the studs, can and will find ways to breed. Unless you're 100% prepared for babies at all times, fixing should be done to prevent it.

    Cropping ears and docking tails I think is very unnecessary. The ONLY time I can see it being okay is for health reasons - I.E. A long eared dog getting multiple ear infections. There is a reason they look that way, and no reason to change it. Same goes for dewclaws - unless you have a hunting dog, and they are prone to catching and ripping off, why take them off? There is no reason to.

    Declawing a cat, I also think, is unnecessary. Amputating the last joint on their paws is a cruel procedure that they shouldn't have to go through. Unless there is a health reason, all of my cats will keep their claws.

    And the last one.. Debarking a dog. I think debarking a dog is THE most abhorrent thing you could do to a dog just because you don't like that particular aspect. At least with their ears cropped, they can still hear. Tails docked, they can still wag. But if you take away the voice of the dog, that's wrong. Taking out his means of communications because you don't like it is outrageous and I am 200 percent against it.

    There are times - certain medical issues - that can validate these particular things. But if you like barking, DON'T get a dog. If you don't like floppy ears, get a pointy eared dog. If you don't want an animal scratching up your curtains, don't get a cat - that, or teach it not to. I've done it a bunch of times. The key here is to get an animal that fits your lifestyle, NOT to get an animal and then fix it to match your lifestyle. You don't all have to agree with me - Everyone has their own opinions. That just happens to be mine.

    AS for the original post - I can see why it used to be done -to not tangle in with the driving lines, but I personally would never dock my draftie's tail. If necessary I would braid it, or if REALLY necessary I would just cut the hair shorter. But why dock? That would mean the tail could NEVER grow back (Right...?) So, when the horse retires out to the pasture, they have no fly protection. Not to mention a nice, long tail looks beautiful!!
         
        11-03-2012, 08:58 PM
      #86
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BornToRun    
    See, this is what I don't understand. You accused me of making "venomous" comments, and then in every one of your replies back to me, you have made an insult towards me. Please, explain that.

    Not all my comments are personally attached to any one individuals. I tend to ramble, get off subject, and group thoughts together into same post. Its an open forum, everyone reads same posts. If the shoe fits, the ones guilty will get the point.

    As for you personally, I don't recall if you did make statement. And im not going back through to see if you did. In my last post, I don't see where I insulted you. But I apologize if I did.
         
        11-03-2012, 09:01 PM
      #87
    Weanling
    Quote:
    I think debarking a dog is THE most abhorrent thing you could do to a dog just because you don't like that particular aspect. At least with their ears cropped, they can still hear. Tails docked, they can still wag. But if you take away the voice of the dog, that's wrong. Taking out his means of communications because you don't like it is outrageous and I am 200 percent against it.

    You are intitled to your opinion, but you are mistaken. A dog can still communicate. Don't believe all that hooplah that you read on this thread about them being mutes. They are somewhat muted. But definitely not mute. And some vocal cords grow back. Its not alway permenant. You have a right to be 200% against it. But be against it when all facts are present. Not base it on pre-conceived notions.
         
        11-03-2012, 09:09 PM
      #88
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dead Rabbit    
    you are intitled to your opinion, but you are mistaken. A dog can still communicate. Don't believe all that hooplah that you read on this thread about them being mutes. They are somewhat muted. But definitely not mute. And some vocal cords grow back. Its not alway permenant. You have a right to be 200% against it. But be against it when all facts are present. Not base it on pre-conceived notions.
    Be that as it may, I have met three dogs who have been debarked in my lifetime. Every time they would try to bark, all that came out was air. Me and my roommate were walking her dog (Who is normally very hostile towards other dogs) and this other dog, a big white fluffy thing, was 'barking' away at her, letting out puffs of air and nothing more. Roomie's dog didn't even NOTICE the dog. I am NOT going off of pre conceived notions, but my own experiences.

    So, while some dogs may have some vocal cords intact (Which is different - leaving the dog with some voice is called bark softening, while muting them is debarking) none of the ones I have did. Just a puff of air was all they could manage, not matter how hard they tried.

    Over in the UK it is considered animal mutilation, and I would have to agree on both counts - debarking and softening.
         
        11-03-2012, 10:05 PM
      #89
    Showing
    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but mutilating animals for vanity's sake is fine with some of you? Because honestly, there is NO GOOD REASON to dock tails or crop ears in horses or dogs except for 'fashion'.

    Unless Dead is baiting bears with dogs (illegal in VA) or hunting wild pigs (none have been sighted in VA), there is no reason other than misplaced machismo to crop a dog's ears or dock their tails. This so called 'hunting reason' is total BS.
    BornToRun and Critter sitter like this.
         
        11-03-2012, 10:05 PM
      #90
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shoebox    
    Be that as it may, I have met three dogs who have been debarked in my lifetime. Every time they would try to bark, all that came out was air. Me and my roommate were walking her dog (Who is normally very hostile towards other dogs) and this other dog, a big white fluffy thing, was 'barking' away at her, letting out puffs of air and nothing more. Roomie's dog didn't even NOTICE the dog. I am NOT going off of pre conceived notions, but my own experiences.

    So, while some dogs may have some vocal cords intact (Which is different - leaving the dog with some voice is called bark softening, while muting them is debarking) none of the ones I have did. Just a puff of air was all they could manage, not matter how hard they tried.

    Over in the UK it is considered animal mutilation, and I would have to agree on both counts - debarking and softening.
    well there you are. A happy ending to a potential horror story. Thank goodness that dog was barkin nothin but air, or he woulda been attacked. Another pro to debarking.

    Truthfully. I don't believe the story at all. I believe its a "fishing" story meant to enforce your opinion. A known dog aggressive dog not even noticing another dog, going through all the aggressive motions except no sound. Which I don't believe there was no sound either. Sorry....thats just my opiinion. And im standing by it.

    As said before. This aint the uk.
         

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