Is he an Ardennes?? :) - Page 24 - The Horse Forum
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post #231 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Administrator, as this thread was quickly becoming toxic!!

No one needs to be ashamed of their opionions on here (Alwaysbehind), when their opinions are expressed in a constructive way (as your is), when people start attacking other people and leaving rude posts, there in lies the problem. What is your intent? and how do you think the comment will be recieved? Bullying someone with your opinion is usually not the best way to respresent yourself or your platform.

Looks like I should clear up a few things...??

1. I got Artex from a client of mine, Artex was given to HER by the "meat man" and then she found herself in a position where she had to downsize her herd.

2. I am not now, nor will I ever be looking to make money off of my horses.

3. I am not a "Rescue", all of the horses I have have come from rescue situations, meat or my place, except for Artex, she would have found him another home had I not taken him Im sure.

4. I AM NOT NOW, NOR HAVE I EVER BEEN A PET PSYCHIC...thats laughable, this is quickly becoming a bad game of telephone. The least the lady could do is get her info correct when posting on another site. His previous owner suggested to me that she believed he was Ardennes, but there were no papers to support any breed theory. Therefore I "chose" to enter this site to see what others opinions on his breeding were, always being mindful that these would remain a hypothesis, especially after learning DNA wasnt possible.

5. The thread is "do you think he's Ardennes", not "do you think I should breed this grade stud" Having said that I dont mind receiving opinions on that if they are constructivly delivered. Have I waffled on my feelings about breeding him...ABSOLUTELY!! I do not deny that. I feel trapped in an ethical/moral battle with myself, have I not mentioned that at some point?

6. I have taken every possible step to ensure my horses will never see a sale (even due to my possible untimely death) and I feel VERY comfortable about saying that again for the potential foal we will have from Artex in 2012. Many of us do everything we can to protect what we love but I agree that life doesnt always go as planned and nothing is certain, maybe I shouldnt have children either.

7. My expectations of my horses are much simpler than some of yours. I have rescued some horses that will possibly never be rideable due to injuries they have sustained in previous situations. And honestly, Im good with that. They do not need to prove themselves to me. As far as Artex goes..there will be a very small select group with SERIOUS interests in his possible stud services and we "may" consider those who pass our screening. We also "may" geld him.
At the end of the day, his fate and the fate of any offspring he now produces is our responsibility, a responsibility I do not for one second take lightly and without serious consideration.

Again, thank you to all of you who have expressed your opinions, either way, in a respectful manner :)

"When you know better, you do better"
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post #232 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackJaq View Post
So yes, your intention is to breed for yourself. How many other foals at the action do you think were bred for the same purpose and their owners' circumstances changed?

Go ahead, report me. I don't see the problem about signing up to a board to reply to a thread you are interested in. Are they going to ban me because I only posted in one thread so far? I think not.

However, I can certainly go ahead and post in a heap of other threads if that makes you feel better..

It usually makes you unpopular to post an opinion that people don't want to hear

This is no different than anybody else picking up a nicely built grade horse of unknown breed at the auction and making more of it because it is "so sweet" or "so pretty" or whatever. How about "so successful" at something? Anything? No?
How do you know his foals won't be hideous with some strange form of debilitating disease?

Of course you are going to keep it.. Even if it does live for 30-odd years... Who wouldn't... You will never get laid off either, totally unheard of...

I just wish people thought about things like that realistically before creating another life. Even if it turns out perfectly healthy and beautiful, chances that you will actually keep it 'til the end are preeeetty slim and the way things are now, unless it has some exceptional education (or an incredible amount of good luck) it will likely end up on a plate in France or wherever, because that's where many, many perfectly nice horses are going right now.
I don't know what sort of people you hang out with. My first pony was 36 when he had to be put down, my second pony died of natural causes at the age of 33, my first horse died of natural causes at the age of of 31, my second horse died of natural causes at the age of 17. The mare that I have know is rising 6, I will keep her for the rest of her natural life and I also plan to get a foal out of her and I will keep that too. The chance of me keeping a horse till the end is NOT preeeetty slim! There are other people out there like myself I'm sure.

Not everyone is an irresponsible horse owner. Your opinion is valid but not the be all end all. Lighten up, you are obviously passionate about the welfare of horses in general which is great but I don't think you realize that the OP rescues horses. She actually does something about the situation whereas I suspect that you may just talk about it at people.
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post #233 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 03:52 PM
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Sorry guys I may have just contributed to the sudden toxicity of this thread - my bad! Nice post Trelauney, very well said, sorry you felt you had to justify yourself in that way. Nice horse by the way but I think I may have said that before lol!
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post #234 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kiwigirl View Post
Sorry guys I may have just contributed to the sudden toxicity of this thread - my bad! Nice post Trelauney, very well said, sorry you felt you had to justify yourself in that way. Nice horse by the way but I think I may have said that before lol!
Thank you, I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who took on horses to keep "for life". I didnt think that was such an unrealistic goal. It bothers me that I felt the need to justify myself too, it shouldnt matter what a stranger has to say I guess, but it does in some small way (all of you in favor of gelding should be happy to know that :) But what kind of person is able to assume so much and be so harsh to someone they dont even know. Maybe the fact that people can disguise themselves behind an alias on these sites allows them to not have to be responsible for their statements. I actually used my real first name, god forbid I be held accountable for my opinions and how I choose to express them...

"When you know better, you do better"
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post #235 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 04:54 PM
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I'm sorry that this thread derailed in this horrible mess.
Am I the only person who innocently comes back here hoping for new pictures everytime something new is posted?

Perhaps I'm being too selfish for ignoring all the debate and just looking for more eye-candy, however, OP, you might as well just try and leave this behind. I guess you already made up your mind about the horse's balls and whatever choice you make it will be yours in the end.

...until then, could you perhaps update us with some details (PICS? PLEASE?) on how's the horse progressing, if you've worked with him, etc...anything not related to his breeding and maybe this whole anger debate soup will cool off by itself in a couple of days.

There is a Member's journals section on the forum and some people have chosen it to keep a diary of how their horse is progressing :) I'm sure I would not be the only one to be happy to see you there.

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post #236 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BlackJaq View Post
Even if it turns out perfectly healthy and beautiful, chances that you will actually keep it 'til the end are preeeetty slim .....
I did just want to chime in on this one little sentence. It isn't impossible or unheard of for a person to keep a horse through it's entire life. I currently have 2 horses and 2 mules that have been buried on my property over recent years. I also have quite a few horses that have been in my family for their whole lives and will remain so until it is time to end it. Not everyone just throws horses away when they get to an age when they are nothing more than pasture puffs. I love every one of them and if, for some reason, I was no longer able to do the job I have now, then I would take the jobs that nobody else wanted and sustain myself on Ramen noodles so that my horse's could eat.

Now, back on topic. I still think he's beautiful and would love to see some more pictures of him.
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post #237 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 07:12 PM
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Well said Smrobs, you said it much better than I did!

Now....... MORE PICS!!! Pretty please....
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post #238 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 09:18 PM
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I think the "don't breed" reaches a level of hysteria on this board sometimes that's inappropriate. I don't have hard facts or figures, but logic tells me that TB, STB and QH breeders breeding for the track create a lot more horses destined for the slaughter market that BYB or hobby breeders. When I worked at an Arab stud farm in the go-go 80s, we knew, at the moment they hit the ground, that 50 - 60% of the colts were straight out culls, 20 - 30% might make it as pleasure geldings and a tiny fraction might stay intact long enough to breed. We bred 60 - 80 mares a year, that's a lot of trash. I personally found homes for/gave away alot of the colts. The impact of a BYB or hobby breeder pales in comparison.

Second, I think there's a useful distinction to be made between BYB and hobby breeder. A BYB is someone who has a uncut 3 yo in the same turnout with his siblings and has several "Oops!" foals that he also can't segregate from the herd, isn't set up for breeding or raising foals but gets them on the ground anyway, and is much more likely to breed to reproduce color or another characteristic totally unrelated to usefulness.

A hobby breeder is someone who has a mare they adore with a good performance career who decides to breed the mare partly for sentimental reasons and partly in the hope they'll preserve some of the good qualities of the mare. These individuals usually understand the economics of breeding, that they'll be paying more to preserve part of the adored mare than for a similiar quality yearling, and they don't care. They also usually have the resources to care for and raise the foal. They usually send the beloved mare to a local stallion. We may not agree with the wisdom of this decision, but they are *NOT* major contributors to overpopulation or slaughter. In my area; lots of the local ladies who lunch send their good hunting horse or good show mare to the local TB stallion for these reasons.

Are they breeding trash? Ehhhhhhhhhhh, some would say so.

Are they contributing to unwanted horses or slaughter population. NO.

I put the OP firmly in the later category of hobby breeder. She lucked in to this gorgeous, unregistered, unpapered horse. She has no idea what he can do or whether he'll throw foals with his desirable characteristics.
If she breeds her mares to him to find out, where's the harm?

From her photos, she has a decent piece of land, decently set up for breeding. And she's bred before, so she knows some of what she's getting into. From her posts, if he throws an undesirable foal, or one without his good qualities, she'll cut him. Again, where's the harm?
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post #239 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 11:31 PM
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I just wanted to chime in one last time saying that I don't know who posted on fugly (which is indeed where I came across this thread) but I use the same screen name there and on any other platform as I use here. In fact, if you scroll through the aforementioned thread you will find a picture of my *puts on holy halo* rescued TB mare and my riding horse, a grade Pinto mare.

"Rescuing" horses does not make you some kind "better" horse owner, even though some people seem to speak of this horse's owner as such "because she rescues". Rescuing horses does however make you angry about people who put more horses into that position.

I also do not need a pack of dogs to state my opinions.

And yes, some people may be offended at the fact that their horse might one day be one of the poor souls in the kill pen. Nowhere have I used "profanity" and such.

I live in Australia by the way, so I followed the thread all day, not all night. That may have occurred to some people when I mentioned I just returned from dinner when it would have been 5 AM in the US.......

I am also not concerned about cutting this horse. Many a stallion looks nicer as a riding horse than he would, had he been gelded, hormones pimp your ride you now. However, my problem is with breeding him, as I have "reiterated" over and over, supposedly.

I don't even know the lady who owns this horse. So yeah, it's a "crazy internet stalker grudge" against some unknown in a different country...

I also got a product name for a thrush treatment for my rescued TB, so yay, hope it made your day

And my expectations of my horses are that they need to prove that they are good enough to be worth making more of if I plan on breeding them. Other than that, I expect nothing much. I don't even show them, ne is a personal riding horse, and the TB I bought as a companion for this horse. However, neither of them will ever reproduce if I can help it because they both have extensive conformational deficits. So what, I don't love them less because of that, they don't need to be baby machines.

And I really don't know many people who have owned a horse from start to beginning. Sure, there are one or two (those are usually the ones who care enough to join a forum and educate themselves), but not as many as you seem to know. Good for you and their horses, of course.

Are they contributing to unwanted horses or slaughter population. NO.
I wa sjust wondering how exactly they don't, when their horses also fill the trucks. Of course there are loads of BNB Arabs, TBs QHs and Paints, which are culls, but seriously, how many wierd crosses you wouldn't even dream of creating in your darkest nightmares get dumped at the sales everywhere? It is those I see here and it is mostly those (and badly conformed pure breds) I saw over there, being picked up for 50 Dollars or less.

Like it was said before, I can't obviously decide what happens to someone else's horse but I'd rather they knew what was possibly going to happen to any horses they create who have nowhere to go should they ever be in need of a new home. Unless they get starved near to death and some rescue decides to take them in because they look ready to drop :S

if he throws an undesirable foal, or one without his good qualities, she'll cut him. Again, where's the harm?
It's not him I'm worried about but the potentially "undesirable" foal.

Last edited by BlackJaq; 12-01-2010 at 11:36 PM.
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post #240 of 254 Old 12-01-2010, 11:51 PM
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I second (or third) the request for more pictures! Love this boy!
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