Sugarbush Draft? Anyone heard of them? - Page 2

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Sugarbush Draft? Anyone heard of them?

This is a discussion on Sugarbush Draft? Anyone heard of them? within the Draft Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category

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    01-20-2013, 09:13 PM
Spotted Draft is another breed entirely, and they are drafts with pinto or paint markings. Sugarbush Drafts are not draft/appy crosses, they are apyy patterened draft horses.
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    01-20-2013, 09:39 PM
His basic body type reminds me of my Percheron x quarter/ appy .
I also have a bay/brown belgian x Morgan x app ? As she has the mottled lips .
Pretty horse.
    01-21-2013, 10:40 AM
Yes, I know that, but i'm looking for a nice 'pure' draft team I can work here on the farm, and maybe pull with. I really like, them and I have been doing my research about them. I'm glad that they are trying to revive the breed, I would love to see more out there someday.
I'd be happy with a spotted draft team too!! I love color!!
    01-23-2013, 07:44 PM
I would love the conformation scores for these Sugarbush Draft horses...

I don't think I ever implied that O was not standing publicly?? And I have heard from multiple breeders about purebred Appaloosas being accepted as Foundation because of draft horse blood a million generations back.
    01-23-2013, 07:49 PM
Originally Posted by MainelyDraft    
I find it funny that people object to the registry adding new blood, especially since there is only ONE stallion left from the original lines and only a few of the original mares left. They're trying to REBUILD the breed, and to do that, they need to add new blood to stop the risk of inbreeding. DRAFT horses are being added, but not crosses or purebred appaloosas. There is the Stonewall Sport Horse registry for appaloosas and appaloosa crosses. Percherons and Norikers made up the breed orginally, with some appaloosa blood... Norikers are a dotted (I'd say spotted, but that makes me think about paints) draft breed. So yes, a Sugarbush can be 100% draft. You may want to do more research yourself. I personally follow and speak with many members of the registry and they are all working very hard to bring this breed back.
Who said I objected new blood? I think you missed the entire point of my post, assuming this was aimed at me. I have personally spoken with all of the registry officials and many of the breeders AT LENGTH, for YEARS. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I strongly disagree with what the registry is doing to this breed.
    01-23-2013, 08:12 PM
Ok, I sent a quick e-mail to two of my Sugarbush breeder friends. They corrected me, the Purebred Appaloosas are not being accepted but the ones with, for example, 1% draft can be bred to purebred draft mares and the resulting foal registered as G-1 Sugarbush......
    01-23-2013, 09:45 PM
Originally Posted by prettydecoy    

Cripes! Poor skinny thing!
    01-24-2013, 01:39 AM
The SDHR at THIS TIME is requiring a minimum of "over 50% draft blood" for registration. Now, here's what most people do not understand. In 2008 there were 12 SDHR horses left. Of those 12, only 2 were not related, and the rest were either siblings or offspring of those 2. The SDHR had 2 options. Let the breed die out, or do something to bring in new blood.

After talking with the ALBC (that's the American Livestock Breed Conservancy) the best course of action for the Sugarbush Draft to prevent extinction was to try and find horses who were as close as possible to the conformational ideal as we could. Measurements and standards were taken from the old lines, and ratios determined. From these, horses are measured against them, for their own size. Such things as back should be 33% to 35% of that horse's body length. Doesn't matter how big that horse is, so long as the ratio of back to horse is between 33 and 35%. This revival plan was based upon the revival of the Cleveland Bays at the turn of the 20th century. It is not a new idea, and it is not an ideal situation.

Horses must be within 70% of the ideal. This means that the Foundation horses accepted are not always ideal, but when bred together will maintain the breed type. The goal of the SDHR is to retain the conformational style of the breed, and sadly there's no other breed out there with such similar conformation, so horses were chosen regardless of pedigree. Too many generations of crossing back to Percherons had started to show in the breed. They were starting to look like Percherons with dots, rather than the Sugarbush Draft that was created by Mr. Smith. We also encourage owners to breed forward each generation, which is why we have the generational tags on the registration numbers, such as F for Foundation, and G1 for first generation (more than 50% draft up to 60% draft) or G2 for second generation (more than 60% draft up to 70% draft).

All of the horses selected have a minimum of one trait to bring to the breed, and are accepted on the condition that their offspring will be reviewed for improvement of the breed. Are they different? Yes. But the goal is not to find all of the spotted draft crosses in the world, but to bring the breed back to the conformation of a few decades back, with multiple bloodlines.

In 2008 this was a 2 person operation. In 2009 a 3 person operation. Today, in 2013, we have a full staff of volunteers (none of us make any money from the time and effort we put into the breed) but we are starting an official membership registration, and BOD elections are in the near future. Last year, our horse owners were considered the only members, and they decided to retain all staff and add more.

Now, one person in this thread is unhappy with the breed for personal reasons (not everyone's horse gets accepted) so is on a mission to discredit the work the staff, owners, and breeders are doing. We try to be transparent about what we are doing. We are not hiding anything, and we encourage questions about the goal and foresight of the breed. I do like how all of the pre and post foaling pictures of the mares were used, as well as the most gangly stages of the young horses. From Balou a few days before birth (showing the belly and sagging tail head) through a couple yearlings, and to Jinx within 48 hours of delivering a foal.

I can tell you that the Black bald faced mare down there is my own foundation horse. She barely passed the evaluation, with a 73%. In other words, she "squeaked in". Her foals though, have scored MUCH higher, with her last daughter receiving the 3rd highest score in the breed, when bred back to the old lines. That score is based upon how close the horse is to the Breed Standard. To many of us, it is also proof that the goal of the program is working. The long backed, goose rumped mare (yes, I'm well aware she's not perfect), when bred properly, produced a lovely sloped shouldered, long necked baby. You can see that foal laying on the ground in front of her dam.

The Sugarbush Draft Horse is not a heavy pulling horse, but they excel with carriage work and under saddle. Their temperament is such that they are wonderful for novice owners, and while drafty enough to carry a 300 pound man with ease, they are gentle and intelligent enough to be ridden by the children. They will never be the next Olympic Dressage champion, nor are they meant to. These horses fill a niche of the "jack of all trades" with the size and substance to accommodate riders who may like a bit more horse under them. Unfortunately, there are few horses for sale at this time, and most of those available are younger.

In 2013 we now have a total of 47 horses in the breed. An average of 12% of the horses who applied for Foundation evaluations (a free service) were accepted since 2009. We understand that not everyone will support our goal, nor agree with our breed, but we hope that those disagreements can be based upon fact, not slander from a biased source.

Heather Harmon
SDHR Registrar
Elizabeth Bowers likes this.
    01-24-2013, 02:11 AM
Originally Posted by prettydecoy    
I would love the conformation scores for these Sugarbush Draft horses...


Now I'm confused, and not for the first time, these can't all be from the same breed surely, there is no conformity of anything that would lead a person to believe that they are trying to preserve a type?

A lot of those mares are, well lets just say I hope they have nice personalities, because they don't look brood worthy. Such a shame, I do commend anyone trying to save or remake a breed, but such diversity is very worrying to the uneducated eye.
NdAppy, FeatheredFeet and MsBHavin like this.
    01-24-2013, 02:33 AM
Originally Posted by Golden Horse    
Now I'm confused, and not for the first time, these can't all be from the same breed surely, there is no conformity of anything that would lead a person to believe that they are trying to preserve a type?

A lot of those mares are, well lets just say I hope they have nice personalities, because they don't look brood worthy. Such a shame, I do commend anyone trying to save or remake a breed, but such diversity is very worrying to the uneducated eye.

Some of those mares are the original bloodlines (what's left) of the program. Some of the pictures you're looking at are of yearlings/late yearlings. It really does sound like someone's horse got rejected (didn't meet the 70% standard) and they're having a hissy about it. My advice? Rather than spewing all over a board (which you're welcome to do, but it seems rather juvenile), why don't any of you who have questions or concerns contact us directly? You have the contact information. It's been given several times.

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