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Sugarbush Draft Horses

This is a discussion on Sugarbush Draft Horses within the Draft Horses forums, part of the Horse Breeds category
  • Sugarbush felina
  • Stonewall draft horse

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    01-24-2013, 12:27 AM
  #31
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by prettydecoy    
Sugarbush Harley-Quinne was 7/8 Percheron. He is by Stonewall Rascal and out of Sugarbush Felina Del Noche.

A thread with pictures (page 2)...

Sugarbush Draft? Anyone heard of them?
How is that different than what I said? "The majority of horses that went into making the Sugarbush's were Percherons and Stonewalls, not Appaloosas." I know the history, I've owned Stonewalls for a while, including Harley's great aunts, and had done research on them when Everette still owned them and Harley was still alive.
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    01-24-2013, 09:03 PM
  #32
Foal
Smokum, also, LOVE YOUR SPOTTY BUTT!!! He looks like my Blanche. Black leopard is my faaaavorite color!
     
    01-24-2013, 09:18 PM
  #33
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiere    
How is that different than what I said? "The majority of horses that went into making the Sugarbush's were Percherons and Stonewalls, not Appaloosas." I know the history, I've owned Stonewalls for a while, including Harley's great aunts, and had done research on them when Everette still owned them and Harley was still alive.
It is no different. That comment was not aimed at you, Chiere.
     
    01-31-2013, 10:49 AM
  #34
Foal
If I may put to bed the "is it a real breed?" question...

Purebred
Adj [ˈpjʊəˈbrɛd]
(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Breeds) denoting a pure strain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirable traits

So by definition horses have been selectively bred until they "breed true" this makes them a purebred. If you want to count generations then it is 5. After 5 generations of breeding true the breed is considered pure.

In the States the Sugarbush breed is already pure, Canada will follow shortly as you can't count foundation horses as part of the breed but being close they have easy access to pure sugarbush draft coverings and AI etc etc...

The UK will be last to gain purebred status of its Sugarbush Draft horses as at present we only have 1 foundation mare and 1 eligible stonewall filly. The UK will need to produce a full 5 generations of Sugarbush bred true horses to be considered as purebred.

Hope this helps clear things up x

P.s. Whoever was asking about the Ardennes. The Ardennes or Trait Du Ardennais is a Belgian breed and is the breed believed to have mothered all other draft breeds. Julias ceaser himself wrote about the Ardennes draft horses which shows just how long the breed has been established. They are the original war horses and nowadays are bred very very muscly for the meat market in Europe. An awful fate for the breed that shaped draft horses as we know it. Lea haras nationaux (french national stud) still breed from the old original lines to preserve the breed. My mare Saffron is an Ardennes from les haras nationaux and also the UK's only F-SDHR XX
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    01-31-2013, 10:51 AM
  #35
Foal
*Les Haras Nationaux
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    03-30-2013, 02:55 PM
  #36
Foal
New foal

We just had a foal born Sunday from the Sugarbush lines. His sire is Kronus of Asgard a leopard appy/fresian (Sugarbush) He is the cutest little guy with a nice blanket and blaze. His Dam is a gray Quarab so he should have some interesting traits. He is super cute and we are having a lot of fun with him.
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    03-30-2013, 05:49 PM
  #37
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brensponies    
We just had a foal born Sunday from the Sugarbush lines. His sire is Kronus of Asgard a leopard appy/fresian (Sugarbush) He is the cutest little guy with a nice blanket and blaze. His Dam is a gray Quarab so he should have some interesting traits. He is super cute and we are having a lot of fun with him.
Congratulations! Now... how 'bout some pictures?
     
    03-30-2013, 06:51 PM
  #38
Green Broke
Photos please!
     
    04-24-2013, 10:15 AM
  #39
Foal
At this time, Sugarbush Draft Horses can be crossed to any of the accepted registered draft breeds, with the resulting foal being granted permanent papers with registration numbers beginning with P. Foals resulting from breedings to draft horses of unknown lineage will be granted second generation papers, denoted with a registration number beginning with F2.

Foals from second generation horses who are crossed back to a Permanent registered Sugarbush Draft Horse will be granted registration numbers starting with F3, or a third generation horse. Crossing these third generation individuals with a Permanent registered horse will result in a horse receiving permanent registration, or a number starting with P.

Horses of draft breeding that can prove appaloosa ancestry, either by appearance, or from a verifiable lineage, may be registered as a Foundation Horse. Horses applying for registration as a Foundation horse are carefully scrutinized in order to preserve the quality of the breed. Registration as a Foundation is currently available due to the limited bloodlines, as an effort to prevent inbreeding of the Sugarbush Draft Horse.

Such horses must prove, either through appearance or by pedigree, that they are more then 75% draft breeding, and have an ancestor that carries the appaloosa color genetics.

Offspring of Stonewall Sport Horse breeding will be accepted as Sugarbush Draft Horses if the combined percentage of draft horse blood is more then 50%. Horses under 75% draft blood will be granted registration with a number beginning with F1. These horses must be crossed to either a purebred draft horse, or any registered Sugarbush Draft Horse from the above categories.

Horses of 50% or less draft breeding are eligible for registration as a Stonewall Sport Horse. These horses can receive registration with either Mike Muir (Access Adventure) or with the International Patterned Sport Horse Registry (International Pattern Sport Horses Official Website). The Sugarbush Draft Horse Registry accepts registrations from either source equally.

While the Sugarbush Draft Horse was originally created with outcrossing to Percheron horses, currently all accepted draft breeds can be used. These breeds include: Belgian Draft Horse, Clydesdale, American Cream Draft, Percheron, Shire, and Suffolk Horse (Suffolk Punch).

Horses registered with the North American Spotted Draft Horse Association are not an acceptable outcross. Foals from these breedings can not be registered with the Sugarbush Draft Horse Registry.

Exclusionary faults for any horse seeking registration, include, but are not limited to:
Tobiano patterning
Frame Overo (Overo Lethal White) patterning
Serious conformational defects

Horses exhibiting other white patterns, such as Splash white, Sabino white (including excessive roaning) or mismarks are not penalized nor disqualified for these patterns.
     
    04-25-2013, 12:00 PM
  #40
Foal
Horse "breeds" are a bit of a gimmik anyway. Each breed of horse has it's own registry, want to create a new breed, just create your own registry, set up guidelines, and go with it. Unlike dogs, where the AKC and UKC take years to approve a new breed. I believe Jack Russels are newly accepted into the AKC, even though the breed itself has been around for a long time. They want to be sure that the breed is significantly different from it's parent breeds and can consistently produce a similar outcrop.

Horse breeds that allow outcrossing, such as APHA, ApHC, Drum Horse, and, yes, the Sugarbrush Draft, will never have that level of strict horse type. An appaloosa that is made up of foundation appy lines will look starkly different from one that has a lot of recent crossing with Thoroughbreds. The different types serve different functions, and the only limitation is that it has the approved coloring and is in some way a mix of App and an approved outcross. That's not to say Appaloosa is not a breed, it's just a different rational of "breed" when compared with the Arabian, that hasn't had new blood in... a while.

I heard of this breed a while back, as I believe "O" lives near me. This particular "breed" is not to my taste, though I love appys, and drafts, and in fact agree with the breeds founder, that an appaloosa draft would really kick-start a carriage company. My only issue with this "breed" is the current registry requirements:

"SDHR has thrown open the registration requirements. We are currently accepting applications for foundation registration for any horse of at least 51% draft breeding with ancestors of appaloosa coloring. "

According to that, I could cross my Shire mare, with an appy-colored Gypsy Vanner, and register it as a Sugarbrush draft??? That foal would be a Drum horse by type and breed, it wouldn't look anything like "O" or the basic idea I see of SBDH horses... I haven't read past that, the foal might have to pass a strict visual inspection to be resigistered as the breed. I understand the concept that a small gene pool is bad, we need genetic diversity, but that is just such a broad range of possible types in there. Once again, to each his own, if you want to breed for this horse, go for it, just not my cup of tea. I love warmbloods and many crosses, as they unite traits I seek in a single horse, but I don't really visualize warmbloods in the same concept of "breed" as I do TBs and Arabs either.
     

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