Anky and Rollkur - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 77 Old 07-03-2009, 10:04 AM
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Ew!! And It's ugly too.. Look at the picture of that poor horse trying to look forward but can't because he's so far past the vertical. Who would do that? It doesn't even look nice at all. Now I'm going to school for Radiology and THAT is not putting any good pressure on the horse's vertebrae, especially the first two and the sacral which don't have any 'give' compared to the rest of the vertebrae. Too much strain - way too uncomfortable to perform happily and successfully in the long run.

Last edited by barefoot; 07-03-2009 at 10:07 AM.
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post #22 of 77 Old 07-03-2009, 10:16 AM
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I've heard she's used Rollkur, but I've never seen her mistreat her horses at all. Salinero and Bonfire have always looked comfortable and happy in their work as far as I've seen. Although it's a huge dissapointment that any accomplished rider would use hyperflexion. Or any questionable "training technique", for that matter.

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post #23 of 77 Old 07-03-2009, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessabel View Post
I've heard she's used Rollkur, but I've never seen her mistreat her horses at all. Salinero and Bonfire have always looked comfortable and happy in their work as far as I've seen.
Yeah... Happy enough that they either run off uncontrollably with her up there or buck her off in a clinic, lol. Apparently you haven't seen all of the Anky video/photos...

I watched her in the last Olympics, live on TV and was APPALLED at her riding. My then 8 yr old could sit a trot better than she was... She was bouncing and her hands were bouncing, and she was stiff as a board... If you've made it to that level of riding, you cannot blame it on nerves... Her horse also bucked! And she still won... I am still disappointed in those judges and the Equestrian Olympic committee as a whole.
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post #24 of 77 Old 07-03-2009, 08:22 PM
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Again about the one sided arguement, LDR is a training technique that has been around longer than anyone you know has been alive. When done properly, in short periods of time, and in extremely experienced hands for some horses in some situations it can be beneficial. I am willing to bet that none of you have ridden a horse at hot as Salinero, or any other Olympic GP horse that is winning at that level. And I'm also willing to bet that none of you will ever ride at that level either, so you shouldn't be bothering yourselves with this whole notion anyways.
Now, this doesn't go to say that I encourage the use of this technique or in any way condone it. All I am saying is that, like many other techniques there can be a time and place for these things. A one-rein stop for example, shouldn't be used to stop the horse all the time, and on some horses never has to be used. But certain times on certain horses, it is a very good technique.
I personally have seen LDR used all the time by people who have no idea what they are doing and it is disastrous, the horses are unhappy and usually lame. I have also personally seen world class riders use the technique sparingly with wonderful skill to excellent results.
I have also seen Anky ride in person. I watched her warm-up. She really over-hyperflexes and is not someone I would say who uses LDR as a technique, but more as a control mechanism. She is a better rider than all of you, and me, but her horses are very very hot and that is I think the only way that she herself can control them. Is she the number 1 rider in the world? No probably not. I imagine that there are a few other riders in the world insane enough to get on those horses, and out of them maybe a handful that could ride them better.
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post #25 of 77 Old 07-04-2009, 02:29 AM
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in my opinion shoving the horses nose into the chest IS IN NO WAY a good way of controlling a hot horse.
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post #26 of 77 Old 07-04-2009, 05:08 AM
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In my opinion, dressage is about relaxation. A horse who is that tense shouldn't be winning everything when it can't accomplish the number one thing on the training tree. It's about cooperation, not forced submission.

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post #27 of 77 Old 07-04-2009, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~ View Post
Again about the one sided arguement, LDR is a training technique that has been around longer than anyone you know has been alive. When done properly, in short periods of time, and in extremely experienced hands for some horses in some situations it can be beneficial. I am willing to bet that none of you have ridden a horse at hot as Salinero, or any other Olympic GP horse that is winning at that level. And I'm also willing to bet that none of you will ever ride at that level either, so you shouldn't be bothering yourselves with this whole notion anyways.
Now, this doesn't go to say that I encourage the use of this technique or in any way condone it. All I am saying is that, like many other techniques there can be a time and place for these things. A one-rein stop for example, shouldn't be used to stop the horse all the time, and on some horses never has to be used. But certain times on certain horses, it is a very good technique.
I personally have seen LDR used all the time by people who have no idea what they are doing and it is disastrous, the horses are unhappy and usually lame. I have also personally seen world class riders use the technique sparingly with wonderful skill to excellent results.
I have also seen Anky ride in person. I watched her warm-up. She really over-hyperflexes and is not someone I would say who uses LDR as a technique, but more as a control mechanism. She is a better rider than all of you, and me, but her horses are very very hot and that is I think the only way that she herself can control them. Is she the number 1 rider in the world? No probably not. I imagine that there are a few other riders in the world insane enough to get on those horses, and out of them maybe a handful that could ride them better.
Yes, there is a time and a place for it and in some ways it could be beneficial. However in the ways that she is doing it, it is not. I honestly think there are better riders out there than her and if she can't control her horses, she should work on that instead of resorting to cranking their necks back like that and being rewarded for it. Why should she be rewarded for having to resort to a "control mechanisim" when others can ride without it (Maybe because they have a less hot horse but for whatever reason)? I may not be a dressage rider, but I will stand by my thinking that blaming her poor horsemanship on a hot horse is a horrible excuse.
Are any of us going to be riding in the next Olympics? Probably not. The basics of good horsemanship and sportsmanship are the same at every level and I think she is a poor example of both.
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post #28 of 77 Old 07-04-2009, 12:01 PM
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I agree, when it is used for an extended period of time or during a whole ride, it is a bad thing. However, I teach my horses to give to the bit during the stop and the back up. Denny assumes the rollkur position during the back with just slight bit pressure. I, however, believe that during forward motion, the horse should have a more natural head carriage. That may be one of the reasons that I never cared much for dressage is that I like a horse with a relaxed neck.

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post #29 of 77 Old 07-04-2009, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvs2ride1979 View Post
Here's a good web site on Rollkur, with detailed drawings and descriptions.
::: Sustainable Dressage - Rollkur - How And Why Not? - Preface :::

IMO, it's a short cut that can be detrimental the horse. At the very least it can easily create a false-frame and a hard mouthed horse.

Anky is a poor example of a Dressage rider, I don't care what she's won. She bounces around in the saddle like a spider monkey. My Dressage trainer would have kicked me out of her program if I had ridden like that!

OMG I laughed so hard when I read this!!!!

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post #30 of 77 Old 07-04-2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayfieldk View Post
In my opinion, dressage is about relaxation. A horse who is that tense shouldn't be winning everything when it can't accomplish the number one thing on the training tree. It's about cooperation, not forced submission.

Excellent point.

Smrobs - when your horse is backing does it really have it nose clear to it's chest? Is there a reason for that or does it just do it on it's own.

As far as the other comments for it - I haven't really read one good reason to do it, even for short amount of time. What does it really do for the benefit of the horse?
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