Applying aids from walk to trot to canter. - Page 3
 
 

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Applying aids from walk to trot to canter.

This is a discussion on Applying aids from walk to trot to canter. within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • What are the correct aides to ask a horse to walk trot amd canter
  • Trot walk aides in dressage

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    08-03-2011, 09:55 PM
  #21
Showing
Hmmmm... Spyder, you and I have different definitions of "simple". LMAO!

Great post though!
     
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    08-03-2011, 10:00 PM
  #22
Yearling
I have been lurking in these awesome discussions for a while. I can honestly say that I am severely lacking in understanding. I love reading and trying to understand, but one thing I came across that I have never heard before. (Never actually been around anything that had been trained in dressage before.) >_< When I get the money this is the next thing I will be getting into, but until then, I'll have to stalk the dressage section of this forum, but I did have a question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
So now that you have a good forward trot ALL you have to do to get the canter is STOP the outside leg from driving and apply inside leg only. The outside leg MAY be needed to prevent the haunches from swinging out but if you have your horse forward and straight in the trot which, using the aids I posted above RARELY happens.

This is the seamless transitions that everyone looks for.
You cue for the canter by releasing the horse on the outside leg? This has gone against the whole, outside leg to cue for canter that I have always heard. Out of curiosity, how does this switch of pressure (Coming from the inside as opposed to outside) change the horse. I imagine there is a valid reason for it and would like to understand.
     
    08-03-2011, 10:14 PM
  #23
Weanling
So your tapping with the inside leg as usual on the corrsponding diagonal and just stopping the ouside leg? So how would this be better than asking for a canter transition from your inside seat bone? When I think of using just the inside seat bone it seems like you would be less likely to push the horse's frame out of line as opposed to a bump from your leg if that makes any sense.
     
    08-03-2011, 10:21 PM
  #24
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsesdontlie    
You cue for the canter by releasing the horse on the outside leg? This has gone against the whole, outside leg to cue for canter that I have always heard. Out of curiosity, how does this switch of pressure (Coming from the inside as opposed to outside) change the horse. I imagine there is a valid reason for it and would like to understand.
The problem is that what most coaches themselves have been taught is to aid from the outside but while it will work it presents a ton of problems with crookedness being the worst. The thought here is to push the horse's haunches slightly to inside so it canters easier...nothing is farther from the truth. The problem is that you can use any aid and with practice it will respond out of habit, not because the rider put it in the BEST position to do so.

To understand the aids we must understand the canter. A Half halt is a drive on one side with a rein aid on the opposite.

All driving aids will affect the OPPOSITE side of the horse. So if the horse is trotting you want to affect the hind leg that is currently in flight so that when it lands will initiate the canter. This is the outside hind with will only be influenced by the inside leg. The outside leg acts as a guard for those horse's that like to go crooked and shift their haunches to the outside as so many horse's can be one sided or the other.

The other reason is that the aid to do trot half pass is outside leg back with inside leg on and the outside leg WILL drive the horse sideways with the inside leg driving forward....sound familiar ( like a canter aid so often taught?)
     
    08-03-2011, 10:29 PM
  #25
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta1981    
So your tapping with the inside leg as usual on the corresponding diagonal and just stopping the outside leg? So how would this be better than asking for a canter transition from your inside seat bone? When I think of using just the inside seat bone it seems like you would be less likely to push the horse's frame out of line as opposed to a bump from your leg if that makes any sense.
All leg aids originate from the riders hip and will travel down to the heel if needed. When the horse progresses ALL leg aids in ALL gaits rarely need a strong lower leg stimulus.

So when I say drive left or right the location ( upper hip to lower leg) will depend of the level of training on that horse. If the leg aids are even in the trot then an outside leg simply on the horse ( as a guard and follows the overall body movement), a deeper seat with inside driving aids will get a straight horse. The flying change is usually easily understood by the horse by simply reversing the aids.
     
    08-03-2011, 10:37 PM
  #26
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
The problem is that what most coaches themselves have been taught is to aid from the outside but while it will work it presents a ton of problems with crookedness being the worst. The thought here is to push the horse's haunches slightly to inside so it canters easier...nothing is farther from the truth. The problem is that you can use any aid and with practice it will respond out of habit, not because the rider put it in the BEST position to do so.

To understand the aids we must understand the canter. A Half halt is a drive on one side with a rein aid on the opposite.

All driving aids will affect the OPPOSITE side of the horse. So if the horse is trotting you want to affect the hind leg that is currently in flight so that when it lands will initiate the canter. This is the outside hind with will only be influenced by the inside leg. The outside leg acts as a guard for those horse's that like to go crooked and shift their haunches to the outside as so many horse's can be one sided or the other.

The other reason is that the aid to do trot half pass is outside leg back with inside leg on and the outside leg WILL drive the horse sideways with the inside leg driving forward....sound familiar ( like a canter aid so often taught?)
Wow, changes my whole perspective. For a while after I started a lot on lateral work on my boy I could not get him to pick up his canter. I would ask for the canter and he would move into our (work in progress) half pass. I couldn't figure out how to differentiate between the two. Now pretty much I have to give a vocal cue when asking for the canter and remain silent for any lateral movement. I was baffled on how to differentiate beyond that.
     
    08-03-2011, 10:49 PM
  #27
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsesdontlie    
Wow, changes my whole perspective. For a while after I started a lot on lateral work on my boy I could not get him to pick up his canter. I would ask for the canter and he would move into our (work in progress) half pass. I couldn't figure out how to differentiate between the two. Now pretty much I have to give a vocal cue when asking for the canter and remain silent for any lateral movement. I was baffled on how to differentiate beyond that.
It took a student of mine 6 months to undo the outside leg to canter aid and simplify it to what I posted. She what always have the half pass go wrong in every test.

Once the canter aid was changed and only used the outside leg for lateral movements she started to win.
     
    08-04-2011, 07:44 AM
  #28
Showing
Folks, but how do you even ask for the canter with the outside leg? I mean what the inside leg is doing then? I've never even heard about doing it this way to be honest.
     
    08-04-2011, 10:01 AM
  #29
Green Broke
My last trainer tried to get this concept going with us, but after she rode Cinny for a month, as well as I , she just threw up her hands and said...fine, ask with the outside the peanut brain will never learn differently.

He's only been under saddle a little over a year, and only half of that was canter so now I think I will try even harder to get him moving correctly and off of correct aids as I am finding that cinny gets confused in lateral work as well...he canters whenever I ask for laterals lol.
     
    08-04-2011, 10:04 AM
  #30
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
So to all those that answered what results have you gotten ????

Describe in response from the horse....such as in immediate response, straightness, weak transition at times or ????.

Always the same transition ( strength, weak, balanced etc)???
Didn't see this earlier. I usually get weak and/or late transitions. I don't know about straightness as I usually work him in a 20 circle at the canter because he tends to try to grab and bolt on the straight. And as I said, he thinks ALL leg cues are to canter at this point so it's hard to get laterals and bends out of him.
     

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