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post #11 of 22 Old 07-17-2011, 05:44 PM
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Spirithorse fundamentally misinterprets what he sees because he has an axe to grind. Rath and Peters are no more "applying brakes" to the horses than they are "overriding" the "brakes" with the "accelerator". This is a misunderstanding of half-halts, collection, and the circle of influence & energy that passes from the horse's hind end, over the back, to the bit and back to the hinds via the abdominal muscles. The influence over the horse's attitude starts in the hindquarters, not the head.

I doubt SH understands the use of half-halts to achieve collection, which is required in dressage tests as one goes up the levels. The horse should "look like he's doing things on his own" insomuch as the rider is not flapping about in the saddle, whacking the horse with legs or whip or yanking the reins this way and that.

SH expects GP riders to sit absolutely passively on their horses, reins looped, while the horse performs amazing feats.

You first, SH. Show us how it's done.
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post #12 of 22 Old 07-17-2011, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Beling:
Thanks for your insightful post.

I have a passion for dressage! I even try and ride 6 times a year in front of a known clinician.
Contact does not mean the snaffle pulled back into the corners of the mouth and the curb leveraged. I have had the privilege of schooling a few upper level riders and they discovered positive results by lessening the amount of pressure on the rein connections...and they rode warmbloods.

Below is a picture of my OTTB that I had many years ago. He was 17.3 hands high and weighed 1700 pounds. I schooled him in dressage, trail, racing on the beach, barrels. I never had to 'hold' him in the manner currently seen in the dressage arena. So I have personal hands on riding experience with a big hot horse and know that I do not have to hold one in the manner being shown in dressage.

Let me tell you from personal experience, you want the horse to appear to be doing it on its own, then give it some release of the pressure....let it have fun. I promise you that you will get a horse that loves to perform and will give it all he/she has got correctly.

As for repeating subject matter:
What lower level riders are exposed to by GP riders is what they emmulate. So shouldn't clinicians, trainers and riders be striving to teach correctness by the descriptions and not the incorrectness rewarding by inappropriate judging? Gymnastic schooling does not require the overbent and behind the vertical methodology......!

"I think there IS something wrong when the first look at a sport evokes disgust."
You would be surprised by just how accurate your statement is known to spectators. The number one question I always hear coming from spectators is; Why are they so overbent and held so tightly? So you see presentation is the number one element of marketing our sport.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beling View Post
I agree with this. I also agree that you can't tell actual pressure by looking at a photograph. On the other other hand, I do know that many Warmbloods can be heavy, they are ridden differently from Arabs, and TB. What used to seem "heavy hands" when I was growing up is now consdered okay, partly, I believe, because it is the norm for certain types of horses. The "look" of the horse acting on its own, or in perfect unity with his rider, now appears to be too automatic, or tricky, perhaps. Judges want to see contact. I know the older type of dressage hasn't near the power and, shall we say excitement, as the modern competitive horse. So the "appearing to do it on its own" has changed somewhat.
As for bringing this topic up over and over again: yes, it is an ongoing concern. I am always surprised when I meet someone who simply HATES dressage, wants to have nothing to do with it, the only part they like in a test is when the horse gets to stretch his neck out and leave the arena. These are usually people who care a lot about horses, who know nothing about gymnastic schooling, but are appalled by the "look" of it. I think there IS something wrong when the first look at a sport evokes disgust. Not that discussion will help much, especially if you've been successful in your approach.
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E. Allan Buck
"Ask and allow, do not demand and force"
www.hartetoharte.org
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post #13 of 22 Old 07-17-2011, 09:32 PM
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This is a 3 time NCHA horse of the year.



The funny thing about posting a picture of a horse loose in the paddock is that you can say he's anything you want him to be. The only thing that picture proves is that you have a picture of a horse.

Since you seem to know better than world renowned judges, trainer, and riders, we are still waiting for the mind-blowing video of you riding your GP dressage horse.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #14 of 22 Old 07-17-2011, 11:21 PM
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It will never happen, smrobs.

Have you ever heard the term, "All hat, no cattle"?
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post #15 of 22 Old 07-17-2011, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aniranch View Post
It will never happen, smrobs.

Have you ever heard the term, "All hat, no cattle"?
Hmmm we ran off SLC for much the same thing.
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post #16 of 22 Old 07-18-2011, 12:01 AM
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I know it will never happen, but sticking on that point does seem to run him off for a while.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #17 of 22 Old 07-19-2011, 03:03 PM
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Spyder, smrobs: I respect both of you quite a bit. However, I think you're missing the boat here. Sprithorse8 does not share your standards. In other words, when he posts a video --- and I'm waiting for it as well! -- you won't like it, because you don't agree with his priorities.

Let's keep the forum open and variable.
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post #18 of 22 Old 07-19-2011, 03:28 PM
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Beling, it's not about whether or not I would like the video. Its about the fact that he goes around spouting all this stuff about people who are world renowned judges/trainers/riders and how he knows more and knows better than they do with absolutely no proof to back it up. It would be one thing for him to say "I just don't agree with how they are judging or how dressage looks these days", but NO, he jumps right into "They are just downright wrong because they don't know how a horse's body works or how to properly train/ride/judge dressage".

I'm all for having an opinion, but his posts are nothing but libel filled with blowing smoke with nothing to back it up and, frankly, I'm surprised that he hasn't been sued for defamation yet by some of the people he has been bashing.

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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post #19 of 22 Old 07-19-2011, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smrobs View Post
I'm all for having an opinion, but his posts are nothing but libel filled with blowing smoke with nothing to back it up and, frankly, I'm surprised that he hasn't been sued for defamation yet by some of the people he has been bashing.
Are you an attorney?
I am well within my legal rights to make statements about the inadequate and incorrect judging and riding.
Defamation: "Any intentional false communication, either written or spoken"
There is nothing false about my statements regarding riders who violate the 'mandated' descriptive rules nor regarding the judges who reward such violations.
And for you information, I can in any working arena with any riders or judges, validate up my claims.

E. Allan Buck
"Ask and allow, do not demand and force"
www.hartetoharte.org
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post #20 of 22 Old 07-19-2011, 03:53 PM
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LOL, then why is it that you can't seem to produce 1 picture or 1 video demonstrating the things that you are so much better at than the entire dressage community?

Always remember that feeling of looking at a big, open country over the ears of a good horse, seeing a new trail unwind ahead of you, and that ever-spectacular view from the top of the ridge!!! Follow my training blog: http://robertsontraining.blogspot.com/
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