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Bute Legalized?

This is a discussion on Bute Legalized? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Usef aspirin to clear out of a horse's system
  • Buteing a stiff horse for a show

 
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    11-22-2009, 05:35 PM
  #21
Trained
You have to give muscles time to heal which is why I don't take aspirin so that I can go work out and I don't give my horse bute so that he can compete. Again, let me restate that I definitely see times where it could be useful. I will give my horse bute at home and let him rest, but I have never given my horse bute at a competition. Cold hosing, walking and keeping him moving and everything else sure, but if he is to the point where I think he needs bute, I don't compete him and I don't understand why you would. Personally, I also wouldn't be competing a horse (at international levels) that needed hock injections or any sort of regular pain relief to keep him competitive.

I like eventerdrews idea of Bute being allowed for special cases. If it is actually going to be monitored and used when appropriate, I am fine with that. I just have seen plenty of horses that shouldn't be competing given bute at low levels where drug testing isn't happening so it worries me about what could become of it.
     
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    11-22-2009, 08:07 PM
  #22
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by eventerdrew    
I don't think bute should be legalized UNLESS the horse has a vet's note or something stating the reason that the horse has the bute in its system, how much, and if they are ok to compete.

Ultimately, the rider should know whether the horse is ok to compete that day or not. So, i'm on the fence about this one.
I was thinking the EXACT same thing!

Also it might warrant more drug testing - horses with more than a specified amount in their system are DQed.
     
    11-22-2009, 11:03 PM
  #23
Green Broke
I like the idea. Some horses get a little sore after a big show and trailering and being in a show stall. And at my last show Geof rubbed his eye and it was a little painful for him and was swollen(he had cut the upper corrner and bruised the inside alitte) so he got a gram of bute for every day we were there and was just fine. So I don't see it become a big problem if monitered corectly. Most upper level horses are on some type of joint supplement.
     
    11-22-2009, 11:39 PM
  #24
Started
I think they should legalize it, but at about half a gram, not a full gram. My mare has navicular I give her about a gram a day if she's uncomfotable, that day, and she's all most 100% sound. So a gram may mask some semi-serious problems, were a horse is slighly off. I could give her a gram the night before a schooling shows and chances are no one would know she was lame, unless the show was latter the next evening.
     
    11-23-2009, 02:58 AM
  #25
Yearling
I have a question...Im not singling anyone out but a few people said something along the lines of this "I bute while competing so my horse doesn't get sore"... Shouldn't the horse be well conditioned and fit for the show?Isn't that what lessons are for?

Bute is a drug but it seems like people forget that and treat it like a supplement .If your horse gets lame or stiff after a show,maybe he needs a better workout.

On the other hand,I'm appalled that people would actually compete with a lame horse but cover the lameness with bute.Makes you wonder if people truly care about their horse or just winning another trophey... Missing ONE show isn't going to kill you.

This is something else I saw, buteing because the horse already has lameness issues like arthritis. IMHO horses like that don't need to be competing.Sure the horse might "appear" fine but think about the damage its doing to them.
     
    11-23-2009, 03:03 AM
  #26
Showing
^^ That is exactly what I was getting at but you put it so much more clearly.
     
    11-23-2009, 03:41 AM
  #27
Trained
For the people who say it won't/can't be abused - I know a guy whose horse was mildly lame for a national MG comp. He buted it, competed, (and won) but the horse never recovered and ended up being put down

I am against it.
     
    11-23-2009, 07:17 AM
  #28
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by lacyloo    
I have a question...Im not singling anyone out but a few people said something along the lines of this "I bute while competing so my horse doesn't get sore"... Shouldn't the horse be well conditioned and fit for the show?Isn't that what lessons are for?

Bute is a drug but it seems like people forget that and treat it like a supplement .If your horse gets lame or stiff after a show,maybe he needs a better workout.

On the other hand,I'm appalled that people would actually compete with a lame horse but cover the lameness with bute.Makes you wonder if people truly care about their horse or just winning another trophey... Missing ONE show isn't going to kill you.

This is something else I saw, buteing because the horse already has lameness issues like arthritis. IMHO horses like that don't need to be competing.Sure the horse might "appear" fine but think about the damage its doing to them.
Yes, they should be well conditioned. The majority of us who are for legalization do not wish to use it for horses who become sore after running a cross country course, or whatnot. But, rather for an older horse who gets a bit stiff in the small show stalls. Also just long trailer rides out to shows can make them a bit sore and tired from working to keep their balance the whole time. These are things we cannot avoid and certainly aren't severe enough to keep us from competing.

We should not be competing a horse that's lame from arthritis - right. But most horses aren't lame from arthritis. They can be on joint supplements to manage it, they are still totally capable competition partners. As a rider you should be well aware of the point in time when your horse tells you he doesn't want to play anymore, due to whatever reason - joints, age, etc. Until then, management is what it's about - most serious competition would absolutely hate it if they were just turned out in a field for retirement... they love to work that much. We also should NOT be masking lamenesses with it (navicular) just to go into the show ring.

I TOTALLY agree with you - bute is a NSAID drug. Many people do treat is as a supplement - they should be ashamed. There are complications that can arise from using it too regularly such as stomach ulcers. I, for one, do not use it unless the vet tells me to. I've never used it on a horse at a show. But, I'm not opposed to the idea for reasons I mentioned, and like having the option of using a gram IF I ever were to need it.
     
    11-23-2009, 09:53 AM
  #29
Green Broke
I'm actually surprised that bute hasn't been legalized before this. USEF has allowed it for years now (2 grams for 1000 lb horse 12 hours before the class). The physical stress of showing, especially at an upper level is not easy. Trailering for hours (sometimes days) to your location, schooling, riding on terrible footing (sadly i've ridden on some really bad footing at what should be nice shows), more jumping then generally what you do at home, then, instead of a nice pasture your horse is locked up in stall for days, sometimes weeks at a time. Your horse is not made to work hard and then stand in a stall. It's not a matter of "covering up lameness" that could ruin your horse. (Yes, I'm sure it happens as Wild Spot mentioned. But MOST people who show horses want their very expensive nice horses to last so MOST of them aren't going to ruin a horse's entire career just for one show, even if a little bute would cover up a career ending lameness.) How do even the fittest youngest horses not get a little stiff or stocked up after all of that?! A little bute used in legal doses will make most competition horses just a little more comfortable without masking the serious issues.

How would you even begin to regulate "bute only in certain situations"? Who's to determine what's the right scenario?
     
    11-23-2009, 03:05 PM
  #30
Trained
Steroidal joint injections are illegal, Hylarounic Acid (aka Legend) joint injections are not.


So Honaysuga, you are suggesting that instead of having my 50 year old mother (who has been riding for about 5 years (10 years on and off)) on a quiet schoolmaster who is a little arthritic, I should put her on a young, inexperienced horse with no lameness issues??
What you are failing to see is that it is nearly impossible to keep a dressage horse sound. Let alone an older one with many years under it's belt that is capable of packing around a Junior or AA rider.
Most dressage people that I know have their horses who are in a full time training schedule, regardless of age, on monthly IM/IV injections and have semi annually or quarterly vet checks. They are very concerned about their horse's soundness, as they should be! Like upnover says, bute is not used to cover up lameness!!
My mother's horse is not lame at home, but the stress of trailering and standing in a stall and showing is simply too much for his arthritis to handle. Yes it is selfish to a degree but the horse is not hobbling around on 3 legs, and once he is home and has a day to recover in the field he is back to 100%. The horse has to earn his grain somehow.
Honeysuga, I strongly suggest you go read some studies about arthritis, showing and using anti-inflammatories. What you are saying is the same as suggesting that an older, mildly arthritic person who has trained for a marathon should not be allowed to compete after taking an anti-inflammatory.
     

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