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Cleaner canter transition?

This is a discussion on Cleaner canter transition? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • How tall was nuno oliveira
  • Hollowing in canter transition

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    01-12-2012, 01:23 AM
  #61
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
And where is the seat... you know, the most important thing in horse riding?
Nuno Oliveira said "Only when the rider is still will the horse hear the whisper of the aids"

Until the rider is very well balanced and totally in control of their body the seat should only be used by a lightening of the weight for a downward transition - as in growing tall, lengthening the leg as leg and hand are used to control the forward pace.

Inappropriate use of the seat causes the horse to hollow, often then throwing the head up and hocks out behind - the total opposite of what you want to happen.
     
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    01-12-2012, 01:36 AM
  #62
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
Nuno Oliveira said "Only when the rider is still will the horse hear the whisper of the aids"

Until the rider is very well balanced and totally in control of their body the seat should only be used by a lightening of the weight for a downward transition - as in growing tall, lengthening the leg as leg and hand are used to control the forward pace.

Inappropriate use of the seat causes the horse to hollow, often then throwing the head up and hocks out behind - the total opposite of what you want to happen.
Well unfortunately I disagree with Nuno Oliveira. The key to an amazing rider is looking at them and seeing absolutely nothing going on.. except the fact their horse is doing an array of things from a beautiful extended trot to a floaty canter to a pirouette. Their aids are so quiet and they are so in tune with the horse that you can't see their aids.

But in actual fact, the rider is working. Seat included. Seat, which is the absolute most important thing.. even before legs and before hands.

Seat
Leg
Hand

Better to have a seat that is active than one that just sits there and does nothing because that won't help the horse either. If you're going to ride without seat, you might as well be up in 2-point the entire time.
     
    01-12-2012, 02:18 AM
  #63
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
Well unfortunately I disagree with Nuno Oliveira. The key to an amazing rider is looking at them and seeing absolutely nothing going on.. except the fact their horse is doing an array of things from a beautiful extended trot to a floaty canter to a pirouette. Their aids are so quiet and they are so in tune with the horse that you can't see their aids.

But in actual fact, the rider is working. Seat included. Seat, which is the absolute most important thing.. even before legs and before hands.

Seat
Leg
Hand

Better to have a seat that is active than one that just sits there and does nothing because that won't help the horse either. If you're going to ride without seat, you might as well be up in 2-point the entire time.
I'm afraid Nuno in his excellence and skill far outways any of us including you on this forum.

Trouble is that the majority of riders are incapable of using seat aids with discretion - they scrub and wriggle around making the horse uncomfortable.
     
    01-12-2012, 02:44 AM
  #64
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel    
Well unfortunately I disagree with Nuno Oliveira. The key to an amazing rider is looking at them and seeing absolutely nothing going on.. except the fact their horse is doing an array of things from a beautiful extended trot to a floaty canter to a pirouette. Their aids are so quiet and they are so in tune with the horse that you can't see their aids.

But in actual fact, the rider is working. Seat included. Seat, which is the absolute most important thing.. even before legs and before hands.

Seat
Leg
Hand

Better to have a seat that is active than one that just sits there and does nothing because that won't help the horse either. If you're going to ride without seat, you might as well be up in 2-point the entire time.

I have to somewhat disagree.

Seat IS important yes, but for me, leg comes first, which drives the horse forwards in to the hands, making for a comfortable seat.

I funnily enough had this conversation with Ingrid, my trainer last night. The worst thing she sees is people rubbing around in the seat, over using leg aids and pinning a horse's nose to its chest.

She said the legs are extremely important, once you crack that, you crack the seat. If you pinch with your knees- you can't sit etc, things like that.
     
    01-12-2012, 02:45 AM
  #65
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
I'm afraid Nuno in his excellence and skill far outways any of us including you on this forum.

Trouble is that the majority of riders are incapable of using seat aids with discretion - they scrub and wriggle around making the horse uncomfortable.

Yup, I myself being one of them at times, last night was the first time I managed to do sitting trot on my greenie and FEEL every step, ride figures correctly and do some pretty fab transition work. Quieter, deeper more relaxed seat, not niggling, wiggling and tensing up as I have been doing.
     
    01-12-2012, 03:05 PM
  #66
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffyDuck    
I have to somewhat disagree.

Seat IS important yes, but for me, leg comes first, which drives the horse forwards in to the hands, making for a comfortable seat.

I funnily enough had this conversation with Ingrid, my trainer last night. The worst thing she sees is people rubbing around in the seat, over using leg aids and pinning a horse's nose to its chest.

She said the legs are extremely important, once you crack that, you crack the seat. If you pinch with your knees- you can't sit etc, things like that.
I see your point and it's alright to disagree :P And yes.. that kind of scenario of not riding properly and forcing your horse into some kind of insane shape.. I'm not a fan of.

But I was more talking about the seat bones, shifting weight, but a good seat in general, an active (correct of course.. which takes time and muscle building) seat is what I consider the foundation to good riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffyDuck    
last night was the first time I managed to do sitting trot on my greenie and FEEL every step, ride figures correctly and do some pretty fab transition work. Quieter, deeper more relaxed seat, not niggling, wiggling and tensing up as I have been doing.
:)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnavas    
I'm afraid Nuno in his excellence and skill far outways any of us including you on this forum.
I'm not a professional, but I am entitled to my opinion. And I do highly respect those riders and whatnot, but all I know is what I feel.. and the difference between a framed horse and an engaged horse.

Take today for example.. asking for a walk --> trot, I use my seat and then add the cue of leg. When we picked up the canter from the trot (on the lunge of course since I'm still learning myself) I noticed it was a lot smoother and a lot less jagged of a canter when I was using a driving seat and I felt the rhytm. I didn't even use my legs to keep him going.. it was just all seat. When you pull the horse back down to a trot.. the first thing you do is get lighter in your seat. You sit up and then sink down into the transition (along with half halts.) You keep your leg on but what makes the change.. is the seat.

Hence why I am so strongly for the idea of it being the most important thing. Sure you could teach a horse to work off of hand.. but they probably wouldn't be connected :/
     
    01-12-2012, 06:13 PM
  #67
Weanling
The ability to sit correctly balanced and quiet is the key to a good rider - when I worked for Jennie Lorriston-Clarke we had a horse that was used especially for the hot seated riders - those that couldn't sit still. In canter if you so much as moved a seatbone he would do a flying change.

So the primary thing a rider needs to learn is to sit still (not as in rigid but with the movement of the horse)
     
    01-12-2012, 06:22 PM
  #68
Showing
Okay well I see where you're coming from now. A rider needs to learn to be supple but grounded to the horse.

I think we're agreeing on the importance of seat but there is a bit of miscommunication.
     
    01-12-2012, 06:52 PM
  #69
Banned
The leg and seat are intricate parts of each other.

Too much movement of the seat affects the leg position, and too much leg movement affects the ability of the seat to do its job.

I don't increase the weigh of importance of either one over the other.
kitten_Val likes this.
     
    01-12-2012, 07:01 PM
  #70
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
The leg and seat are intricate parts of each other.

Too much movement of the seat affects the leg position, and too much leg movement affects the ability of the seat to do its job.

I don't increase the weigh of importance of either one over the other.
Well I can agree with that.
     

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