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Craptastic dressage at Danish Championships

This is a discussion on Craptastic dressage at Danish Championships within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category

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        06-18-2013, 04:44 PM
      #101
    Weanling
    Ingrid Klimke trained Damon Hill to GP before he was bought for her student, Helen Langehanenberg, who was in the top 6 individually at the London Olympics, if memory serves.


    Ingrid also completes Dresden Mann at GP. I posted their video back on pg 7, I think. Not to mention team Gold and individual silver in eventing in London.

    Like father, like daughter indeed :) Its a shame her brother Michael stopped competing.
         
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        06-18-2013, 06:52 PM
      #102
    Super Moderator
    I have a couple of pet peeves BOTH of which have become the "norm" with the new training techniques. The polls are showing a significant and consistent lowering as the horse breaks well behind. It is RARE in todays ring that you see a horse with the pol as the highest part of the neck, which has always been considered CORRECT! I blame that on poor use of LDR and rollkur.

    I also rarely see a horse who does not dive, defensively, behind the vertical. When I was showing FEI that was a huge fault that you would see affecting your scores. Now, it is the norm. I blame that of incorrect use of LDR and Rollkur.

    I stretch horses when I school. I NEVER (I will say it again) NEVER pull the horse behind the vertical. I will ride the horse forward into the vertical. Anyone who does this otherwise is taking shortcuts. These shortcuts have, unfortunately, redefined what we accept as "normal". This is one of the reasons I decided to turn my back on competitive dressage. It became all about the rider and "glory" and much less about the horse and correctness.

    Heck, I even remember when a shoulder-in was considered INCORRECT if it was traveling on four tracks instead of three. I lost a 4th level championship because my horse overdid the shoulder-in and went onto four tracks. Now, four tracks is accepted and you rarely see a correct shoulder-in. Sad.
         
        06-18-2013, 06:58 PM
      #103
    Super Moderator
    I wonder how many of these problems are caused because too many people want to go sideways (as per dressage) before their horses can even go forwards in a good balanced outline.
    There are some that feel that dressage only exists at that level and the low levels aren't worthy of the name.
         
        06-18-2013, 07:05 PM
      #104
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
    The difference is IMO that those who are very vehemently against rolkur have not ridden upper levels, have no experience with upper level horses and are generally jealous of those who do ride upper levels, or feel that they are somehow overshadowed or something by them. Earn your tails, then talk.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Anebel, I have competed at GP (quite a bit) and NEVER used rollkur.....ever! I turned my back on the competitive dressage ring and went eventing instead. I got sick to my stomach with what was happening.

    If you decide to take shortcuts, and I do consider these techniques to be a detrimental shortcut, that is your decision alone. Just because all the "biggies" are now doing it is no endorsement at all. When it becomes so rare to see correct movements and are almost shocked when you do, something sour is going on, IMHO.
         
        06-18-2013, 07:07 PM
      #105
    Trained
    ^^^^ this exactly!
    Boy am I glad I'm not the only " old fashioned" " living behind the moon" old crow...... not calling you all " crow", ladies.
    Allison Finch likes this.
         
        06-18-2013, 08:32 PM
      #106
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    Anebel, I have competed at GP (quite a bit) and NEVER used rollkur.....ever! I turned my back on the competitive dressage ring and went eventing instead. I got sick to my stomach with what was happening.
    Ah, but according to Anebel, GP SchmeeP -unless you are or have competed on the world stage , you have no right to judge

    As you stated, so much that is fundamentally incorrect has become the norrn, especially if it is done extravagantly and energetically. Back in the early 90s I was riding with a Team alternate just home from Germany who came back wide-eyed with tales of the "new" type of blooded horses and training techniques, and when clinicing with Hilda G, also just back from Europe, she regaled us with stories of just how electric Bonfire and Gigolo were. She was bemused. And here we are 20+ years later.
         
        06-18-2013, 09:21 PM
      #107
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Weezilla    
    As you stated, so much that is fundamentally incorrect has become the norrn, especially if it is done extravagantly and energetically.
    That right there, true for almost every other aspect of the world. Reminds me of a line from a children's movie, "You gotta give the people what they want... You don't have to be good, but you had better be... BIG AND LOUD!"
    .... Cats Don't Dance.

    I even saw it at local shows. Girls with horses flipping over and bucking; didn't matter much to the judges, as long as the girls kicked, kicked, kicked and pulled, pulled, pulled their snorting steed into "frame".
         
        06-19-2013, 12:52 AM
      #108
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Allison Finch    
    If you decide to take shortcuts, and I do consider these techniques to be a detrimental shortcut, that is your decision alone. Just because all the "biggies" are now doing it is no endorsement at all. When it becomes so rare to see correct movements and are almost shocked when you do, something sour is going on, IMHO.
    I agree. At the same time, I'm very lucky to be around top level riders all the time and I have to say that I have never seen anything resembling rollkur. I just attended a clinic with one of our Olympic riders and there was so much focus on getting horses to *not* be behind the vertical, to open up, which I found very refreshing. And the results were quite something to see - just this change transformed some horses from great to astounding. Very fun to watch.
         
        06-19-2013, 06:31 AM
      #109
    Weanling
    Anyone needing the use of Rollkur to help get them on the world stage needs to look at themselves. If you are happy to make your horse unhappy for the fame and glory of competing internationally then that not only goes against the 'harmony' dressage is all about, but also shows you as bad character.

    I have worked with some of the best international dressage horses in the UK. None of them were rollkured. Earning your tails is down through sheer hard work and a true understanding of the scales of training.
         
        06-19-2013, 08:25 AM
      #110
    Weanling
    I am not understanding how we see a horse over flexed in a warm up ring and immediately start accusing someone we don't know or ever met of Rollkur.
         

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