Craptastic dressage at Danish Championships - Page 4
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Riding Horses > English Riding > Dressage

Craptastic dressage at Danish Championships

This is a discussion on Craptastic dressage at Danish Championships within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Danish dressage champs rollkur

Like Tree126Likes

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    06-17-2013, 01:36 PM
  #31
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
The difference is IMO that those who are very vehemently against rolkur have not ridden upper levels, have no experience with upper level horses and are generally jealous of those who do ride upper levels, or feel that they are somehow overshadowed or something by them. Earn your tails, then talk.
Posted via Mobile Device
Now this sounds very stuck up and dressage diva......
I'm pretty sure less people would be so disturbed by it if the ones who claim to know would explain why and how and when Rollkur is an appropriate training tool.
Nothing personal, tho.
EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    06-17-2013, 01:48 PM
  #32
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
Now this sounds very stuck up and dressage diva......
I'm pretty sure less people would be so disturbed by it if the ones who claim to know would explain why and how and when Rollkur is an appropriate training tool.
Nothing personal, tho.
I don't personally go onto threads about training in other disciplines that I don't understand. Spade bits and sliding horses into walls are things I don't know about and don't care to comment on. However everyone and their dog seems to have an opinion on how cruel dressage is. Because media invites them to.
Dressage instruction is available nearly world wide and there are thousands of qualified coaches whom can teach you how to ride and train a dressage horse. To explain what horses to use which techniques with at what point in the training could be the subject of a 3 part book series. And even then bot every horse is the same or will respond the same way to an exercise or training method. And some riders have physical limitations or preferences that make certain methods not right for them either.
Posted via Mobile Device
Fahntasia likes this.
     
    06-17-2013, 02:27 PM
  #33
Started
I can't say I agree with training a horse in Rollkur all the time. I think most would agree; however, I'm not going to say it doesn't have its time and place. I have far less of a problem with the method being used by experienced hands, then watching your back yard "dressage" instructors teach lessons or "training" a horse. Its the same with draw reins. Every method has its time and place, but put in the hands of the inexperienced will only result in damaged, broken horses. And while Anebel is defensive about the sport, she is constantly defending it against people (general) who jump to conclusions and think they have the whole story.
Muppetgirl likes this.
     
    06-17-2013, 02:34 PM
  #34
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
The difference is IMO that those who are very vehemently against rolkur have not ridden upper levels, have no experience with upper level horses and are generally jealous of those who do ride upper levels, or feel that they are somehow overshadowed or something by them. Earn your tails, then talk.
Posted via Mobile Device
Really? You are saying that unless you've ridden such a horse you can't have an opinion on a method of riding and that critics must be jealous to contemplate that it might be cruel? How ridiculous.
Allison Finch and AlexS like this.
     
    06-17-2013, 02:37 PM
  #35
Weanling
Re: the Thomas Sigtenbjerggaard and Nintendo video... wow I am exhausted after watching that horse! I do not claim to know much about rolkur and as a generally less competitive rider I don't agree with the idea, but I will say that Nintendo illustrates a degree of athleticism that makes me breathless. Although when his rider threw him the reins after the test and Nintendo stretched out I breathed a sigh of relief!
     
    06-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #36
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I don't personally go onto threads about training in other disciplines that I don't understand. Spade bits and sliding horses into walls are things I don't know about and don't care to comment on. However everyone and their dog seems to have an opinion on how cruel dressage is. Because media invites them to.
Dressage instruction is available nearly world wide and there are thousands of qualified coaches whom can teach you how to ride and train a dressage horse. To explain what horses to use which techniques with at what point in the training could be the subject of a 3 part book series. And even then bot every horse is the same or will respond the same way to an exercise or training method. And some riders have physical limitations or preferences that make certain methods not right for them either.
Posted via Mobile Device
I doubt everybody and their dog thinks dressage is cruel. It's the oh so nice method, and name, of Rollkur lots of people of any discipline are having a problem with.
I don't feel capable of explaining what reason there could be for this particular tool, aside from forcing a horse into a certain frame. And let me tell you, regardless of discipline, having to do this, especially in a warm up for a show, is proof of poor horsemanship.
You can tell me all you want about getting lessons and instructors...and I'll tell you, done that, 45 years ago. But. I see the difference between when I learned and what is being taught now.
And for spade bit and sliding into a wall.....go and ask the experts...they will explain, in terms anybody with a basic knowledge can understand. So why can't Rollkur be explained by those who claim to know?
     
    06-17-2013, 03:21 PM
  #37
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clava    
Really? You are saying that unless you've ridden such a horse you can't have an opinion on a method of riding and that critics must be jealous to contemplate that it might be cruel? How ridiculous.
Really? I think the opposite is ridiculous. We equestrians constantly complain about footballers calling riding easy. How is this any different? Oh wait. I forgot. Dressage is the basis for all riding and therefore must be really, really easy. Sorry I forgot that dressage is lesser than all other equestrian sport because of it's ease and the horses are constantly abused.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    06-17-2013, 03:24 PM
  #38
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by deserthorsewoman    
I doubt everybody and their dog thinks dressage is cruel. It's the oh so nice method, and name, of Rollkur lots of people of any discipline are having a problem with.
I don't feel capable of explaining what reason there could be for this particular tool, aside from forcing a horse into a certain frame. And let me tell you, regardless of discipline, having to do this, especially in a warm up for a show, is proof of poor horsemanship.
You can tell me all you want about getting lessons and instructors...and I'll tell you, done that, 45 years ago. But. I see the difference between when I learned and what is being taught now.
And for spade bit and sliding into a wall.....go and ask the experts...they will explain, in terms anybody with a basic knowledge can understand. So why can't Rollkur be explained by those who claim to know?
Well, to start with, the stigma. And second of all, you gave already made up in your mind what rolkur is. So I don't bother because I'm going to be wrong according to all the dressage/rolkur/animal abuse "experts".
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    06-17-2013, 03:35 PM
  #39
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
Well, to start with, the stigma. And second of all, you gave already made up in your mind what rolkur is. So I don't bother because I'm going to be wrong according to all the dressage/rolkur/animal abuse "experts".
Posted via Mobile Device
now your pouting.
I said I couldn't explain it any other way. Maybe because when I learned to ride Rollkur was non existent so nobody could explain it. This is why I would welcome the opportunity to find out from a modern dressage rider what place it has in training. I might tell you afterwards what I think about it, and we could even discuss our different points of view.

I know exactly how you feel. I've been in a similar situation when I, living in dressage country, switched to western, at a time when it was known only from movies. I had to explain myself constantly. And I heard it all, believe me. But I found out explaining things without belittling goes a long way.
EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
     
    06-17-2013, 03:36 PM
  #40
Foal
Anebel, Clava, DHW...

I smell smoke in here... let none of us get too hasty. While there is a difference between lower level riders and higher level riders, I make it clear to point out that being a top level rider does not make you the smartest rider, but some of the smartest riders are in top levels. Being a judge for the top levels does not make you any more fair and wise than lower level judges, but it would be the hope that people who are quite fair and wise occupy judging positions for the top levels. See what I'm getting at, everyone? There is more than one way to acquire a result, let's still focus on the process like this thread was intended to. Paso Fino horses, in their native land, undergo harsh treatment and still perform as desired. Without being nitty-gritty and working one's arse off to be extremely, brutally specific and scientific about every little movement and detail of the training they have, anyone who looks into some brief observational experiments can correctly say that there are suspicious traits.

Cardiac problems, excessive salivation, blue tongues, and a distinctive dinosaur-like triangle in the horse's neck? Well, it is at least appropriate to say that there is enough assumption to give strong caution based off those identifiable traits in horses trained with the Rolkur method, and drastically lacking in the horses trained in other ways. There is an appeal to ignorance on all sides, because all of us truly do not know all there is to know. Is there any significant evidence that Rolkur provides a healthier, happier horse than if the horses had been trained in other manners, even in a bitless bridle? It is not about the movements and the performance, the goal of Dressage was to provide a healthy, fit, flexible, mentally obedient and sound horse.
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spring Dressage Championships Kayty Horse Pictures 9 10-17-2012 11:41 AM
Rolex Championships?? WildJessie Horse Shows 10 05-01-2011 01:37 PM
eeeek championships!! MaggiStar Eventing 18 04-26-2010 05:10 PM
Tree size on western saddle for my danish warmblood? figaro Horse Tack and Equipment 14 12-22-2008 07:30 AM
Friday coffee and Danish DashAwayAll Horse Talk 5 08-01-2008 12:14 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:03 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0