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Leg yielding

8K views 34 replies 14 participants last post by  Spyder 
#1 ·
I am trying to introduce my horse to basic lateral movements and would like some advice.

I've never ridden leg yields before but am becoming more familiar with the aids i need to use. My horse has never done any lateral exercises.

Today i introduced him to turn on the forehand and at first he didn't seem to get it but after a few tries he was doing pretty well. I did this to show him that when i apply pressure behind his girth he should move sideways.

So what i want to know is when attempting to leg yield from say the quarter line to the arena edge how will i know he is actually doing it correctly if i have no one there to watch me. What should i look out for on his shoulders, neck, general placement to make sure he's travelling sideways and not just riding a straight diagonal line?

ideally i would be able to take someone along to watch me but that's not always possible.

Also, any tips for teaching how to leg yield without confusing him to much?
 
#2 ·
I'll preface this by saying it helped me AFTER I already knew when my horse was doing a true leg yield versus faking me out and just drifting over to the railing. What you want to feel is that the movement is coming from behind you. The first time you come down the quarter line, ask for the flexion, apply the leg cue and let him drift over the rail. That will give you a baseline feeling for "didn't do it at all". The second time, come down the quarterline, apply flexion and leg and try to bring him literally sideways to the rail a few steps "overdid it". Try to remember that feeling and on the 3rd pass, try the true leg yeild. If you're muscle memory is good, you should be able to feel how much between the two extremes he's moving. Most horses initially evade the leg yield through the outside shoulder. If he pops it, bring him straight forward a few steps, take a litte more outside rein than before, and ask again for leg yield. This time he'll probably go more sideways than forward. Regardless, you'll have to play with it. You're smart to start on the quarterline, so to not overface him. Once he's doing it right, you'll feel him stepping into the outside rein from behind. He'll most likely soften at the poll and chew on the bit a little. It's a cool feeling. Each time he gets stuck, just straighten and move forward a few steps before trying again. Remember to reward every try. Good luck.
 
#3 ·
Just a quick side note here, leg yielding is not actually a lateral exercise - there is no bend ;) It is however, and excellent precursor to teaching lateral exercises, as it teaches the horse to step sideways off the leg and work into an outside rein.

For a true leg yield, he will be flexed slightly to the inside (looking away from the direction of travel), and step forward and across the outside fore/hind legs with the inside fore/hind legs. The shoulders and hips will be parallel to one another and to the side of the arena.

So to feel if he is executing the movement correctly, first you may notice that the horse's shoulder is closer to the rail than his hips. This means that he is probably not crossing the fore/hind legs, and is on the forehand. To correct it, think of stopping the motion of the shoulders, by applying a half halt on the outside rein and holding your seat to stop the shoulders, while asking the inside hind leg to step across to bring the quarters back in line with the shoulders.

You can do leg yield in walk, trot AND canter. Trot is easiest for the horse, but obviously when you're learning how to ride it, walk will be easiest for you to start on. Don't worry about him being forward and engaged to begin with, just get the sideways feeling, taking it as slow as feel comfortable with. Once you get a good feel for the motion of a leg yield, then you can start asking for more power and activity in the hindquarters.
 
#4 ·
The true leg yeild is absolutely straight from ears to tail with no bend or flexion, totally parallel to the wall and is actually quite difficult. In training it is useful for many things depending on the position you are putting the horse in but generally having a slight flexion away from the leading leg and having the forehand slightly in front of the haunches is considered correct.
I always start in walk unless the horse has a really dreadful walk. You basically have two active aids and two passive aids with (as always) the seat balancing. Considering the leading foreleg to be the "outside" then your two active aids are the inside leg and outside rein and your passive aids are your inside rein and outside leg.
To go more sideways, use more inside leg and give the horse more room on the outside rein and to go less sideways or to correct a shoulder leading too far, use more outside rein and less inside leg. If the horse rushes or slows down we can balance this with the seat and the passive aids becoming a little stronger of weaker.

Good luck!
 
#5 ·
also remember to sit in the direction u are moving.. this will help lead ur horse to that direction and as ur pushing w ur outside leg dont do a contiuous push.. u want to pulse with your outside leg as his hind leg comes over u push w ur outside leg and this will encourage him to engage the hind leg more
 
#6 ·
Start by teaching him to give to the leg from the ground - stand by his left side by his shoulder, bend his neck left (towards you) then use something like a spur or little finger to "nudge" him with it right behind the girth. The minute he steps away from that "nudge" release the neck bending rein and tell him good boy.

Make certain you do this multiple times on BOTH side and work up to horse stepping (with hind legs) away from nudge several steps until nudge stops.

Then you can start from his back. Come down the center line (A to C) of the arens. If you came down the centerline by turning left then you use your left leg to "nudge" him to the right while bending his neck to the left (not a big bend). I also like to squeeze on right rein at same time I'm "nudging" with left leg so the shoulders move over while horse is crossing their back legs.

One step is good - work up to multiple steps. Once he steps away from left leg do it on the right leg.

Viola - you have a leg yield.
 
#10 ·
Im not experienced in dressage so all i can say is: Its all about moving your horse away from your leg. You dont use reins. Its leg yielding, not hand yeilding. If you dont use reins , I guess your horse will move sideways? ( I may be totally wrong. Real sorry.)
 
#12 ·
Interesting, different ways of doing things, but I have always learnt to sit slightly (simply weighting my stirrup, not sitting heavily on the seat bone) to the inside, due to the horse's nature to move away from pressure.
And yes, this is from a number of professional dressage riders and international clinicians. Riding tests, I always get a 7 or 8 for my legs yields - so sitting lightly to the inside can't be that wrong hey ;)
 
#13 ·
Thanks everyone for all the information.

Thanks for the video links too, i have a few videos of jane savoie's but hadn't seen those two.

I;ve worked with him on the ground tonight o teach him to move away from pressure of my hand behind his girth so at the weekend i'll give it a go in the saddle. i guess it'll take time and practice too ;)
 
#15 ·
I agree with what Kayty is saying about just lightly weighting the inside seat bone. The other way, you're basically forcing the horse to move over by unbalancing it on purpose which defeats the purpose of doing dressage in the first place which is to create a balanced horse. By weighting the inside, it's more a suggestive aid to the horse to move away from that pressure. The rider should be sitting square and balanced in the saddle or else it will all just go to hell, no?
 
#16 ·
Stella--Although you are using your legs to push the horse over, you still need to steer! You arent using a direct rein, but an indirect rein to help move them over. (or at least to how I was taught how to leg yeild)
 
#17 ·
Adding to your comment VelvetsAB, the purpose of leg yielding is to set the horse up for the learning of lateral movements, in which the horse must work into an outside rein contact. The outside rein must be held steady and elastic to provide the horse with an appropriate contact to work into, thus allowing the energy created through asking the hind legs to 'engage' by stepping under the horse's centre of gravity and taking the majority of it's weight, to be 'held together' and used in a positive manner such as allowing the steps to come higher and the forehand to lighten, rather than allowing this energy to simply fall out through the outside shoulder, the result of not maintaining a rein contact.
 
#18 ·
When I initially taught my horses LY I taught weighted my outside seat bone. Later as I taught them walk/canter pirouettes and Half Pass I weighted my inside seat bone.

So if the leg/rein aides are correct they will move in the correct direction.

The reins are use in LY since:
LY horses looks left/move right and looks right while moving left

HP (Half Pass) The horse looks in the direction it is moving:
Horse looks right and moves to the right,
Horse looks left while moving to the left.

In both HP and LY you use the reins to establish the bend (slightly for LY so horse is almost straight by SLIGHTLY looking away from the direction in which it is moving).
 
#19 · (Edited)
weighting inside or outside for lateral movement

I have to weigh in on this.
I believe you must weight the side of the horse on the side where he is going. No matter what direction he is bent, you must weight toward the direction of movement, and in this case it is toward the outside of the leg yield.
Another reader gave an excellent example of carrying a child. You must go in the direction of the weight. It is not forcing your horse. You are already asking it to go , say, left, with pressure from your right leg. Weighting the left seatbone is only natural to HELP your horse stay balanced rather than to have your weight work at defeating his attempt to comply with your leg aid request to go left.
Also, I think if you really try this you will see that when you put a leg on a horse, if you use any thigh pressure at all (and many riders do), the seat bone of that pressing leg actually comes off the saddle a tiny bit, and consequently the other seat bone pushes into the saddle a tiny bit.
The seatbones CAN NOT move independently. IT is an anatomical impossibility. when one moves, the other does too.

Ok , what dya think?
 
#20 ·
I strongly agree with Kayty's posts. I've had international coaches/judges/dressage riders tell me the exact same thing. I don't think the example of using the child is a very good example as it doesn't take into account the leg aides for leg yield.
I mean, if I had a child on my shoulders and someone was digging me in the ribs on the right (of course, we don't dig in the ribs, but I'm exaggerating), I'd be moving to the left in an effort to get away from the pressure. If the kid remains balanced, I'm fine. If the kid leans to the right, I'm ok. If the kid leans to the left, I fall over.
In my opinion, placing more weight on the direction the horse is going is not helping, but hindering the horse.
When I'm riding leg yield and place weight in the direction I'm going, my horse blocks. He's got pressure from my leg and pressure from my weight. I get a confused horse, so I push him on but block with my hands to stop him speeding up. The only way he can go is up. So up he goes. I also get comments like "Horse and rider are unbalanced" when I use that technique. I can assure you, my horse and I can flat gallop a very balanced 20m circle so it's not our balance that's the issue.

But yeah, that's just the way I see it. Whatever floats your boat really.
 
#21 ·
Hi, I have a question and I'd highly appreciate if somebody answered, I didn't want to start a new topic about it however if nobody responds I will.

Leg yielding x Turn on the forehand

When you think about it the turn on the forehand is kind of a leg yielding but... How do you make a dierence between these two, how do you tell the horse what exactly you want him to do, how do you differ the cues? I know many people start teaching the turn on the forehand when the horse is facing a fence or a wall so he can't move forward and learns to move his hind quarters only but by the time you move away from the wall and you want the horse to perform the turn on the forehand "freely". How does he know if you want him to turn on the forehand or if he's supposed to move sideways? As far as I understand the leg cues are exactly the same, is the trick in squeezing the reins when wanting to turn on the forehand to protect him from moving forward? I don't mean to PULL, just protect him from stepping ahead. Is this the only difference? I've thoroughly read many websites explaining both leg yielding and turn on the forehand but none of them was explaining the difference and quite a few of them had exactly the same instructions on both (except in the turn on the forehand you want the horse to be slightly turned in the direction of the movement). And one more related question if I may... How does the horse know the difference between the turn on the forehand and side pass - is the difference in reins again? (again I found a website that described it very similarly to the turn on the forehand)


Thanks a lot :)
 
#22 ·
Mumiinek,
(love your avatar image)
Ok, Turn on the forehand vs leg yield . (I won't address sidepass as I don't ride much Western and have never been formally taught sidepass.)
As for LY, it as much, or more, a forward movement as a lateral movement. It is just as important for the horse to take forward steps as it is for him to step over to the side. Let's use LY to the LEFT for this discussion, ok?
Here I am legyielding to the left; I take up a tiny bit more contact on the "inside", (inside of the minute bend), Rt rein and suggest with a "tickle" of my fingers that the horse give and make a very slight bend, really just tucking his jaw to the right . I put my right leg on at the girth and press gently. The outside leg goes back an inch or two and it is there to support the horse and remind it to continue going forward.
The outside rein stays on supportive contact. If the horse is minutely bent to the right, the outside,left rein with be on his neck and thus act as a bit of a "wall" to keep him from going too much sideways. The outside leg also does this. It stays constant on the horse's side draperd there, while the "driving" right leg will be pulsing with each step.
So, I put my active, inside leg on just as the horse's inside leg steps under. then, when he is stepping the left hind I kind of "hold" him with my left leg (not alowing him to swing to the left but to go forward instead) and "hold" him with my outside rein and think "Forward please". So, I ask basically for one step sideways, one step forward, one step sideways, one step forward . . . My teacher said if your horse loses it's forward and starts to angle outward to much, ditch the LY and reestablish forward thinking and try again. It's kind of asking for a sideways movement and then recieving that energy into the outside hand and channeling it into a forward step. 'over, recieve, over recieve" Sounds vague, I know.
The step over sideways in LY is not very big. The classical teachers of dressage would see little value in LY and would have students spend their time on Shoulder in as the more important trainging aid.
As for Sidepass, someone else will chime in.
 
#23 ·
Thanks a lot for you response, I will have to read it once or twice again though to get it all as I'm kinda lost in it now :-p But what caught my eye:
...I put my right leg on at the girth and press gently. The outside leg goes back an inch or two and it is there to support the horse and remind it to continue going forward.
Shouldn't the right leg go behind the girth if I'm moving to the left? I just googled some websites again to make sure I remember it correctly and they all say so, inside leg behind the girth and outside one on the girth. That's what makes me so confused about leg yielding because that's also how you make your horse turn on the forehand. I can also never remember which side is inside and which one outside so it's even more confusing for me :lol: And to this all I just also realised the same leg aid is applied to make a horse canter (only then it's the outside leg), I know it is NOT only about the leg behind the girth but to be honest how many horses do you know that are taught to canter when you move your outside leg behind the girth? At least I know quite a few, mine included. Oh and sitting the trot, he doesn't know that thing. Everytime you sit the trot he either stops or goes into canter. Ok not everytime anymore as we're working on it hard but you get what I mean :)

Any help about all these "behind the girths"? Are they all the same thing you then differ from the other cues by adding other aids (hands, seat etc.) or is there also a difference between each placing of the leg behind the girth (moment, possition, what do I know)? I often find myself reading various how-to articles about horse riding that go like "to make a horse do ... put your leg behind the girth" and I go like "wait, that's what you do to make him ... and ... and ... as well, uh?"
 
#24 ·
Oh my, I just realised all I've read about leg yielding is exactly how the previous owner of my horse explained to me he'd taught him to canter. Outside leg behind the girth (that one is the inside one in the leg yielding, right?) and slightly squeeze the outside rein (also inside rein in leg yielding) et voilà, he canters. This is hard. Excuse me if I'm digging into it too much, I always tend to do that with things that are complicated enough on their own. I don't even know what I want from you guys anymore, I guess just to tell me it's not all so terrible as it seems to me it is! :shock:
 
#28 ·
Spyder how do u ask your horse to canter? im just very curious as to how u do it or how its supposed to b done in the higher levels
 
#29 ·
To get a left lead for example.

Slight half halt, sit deeper in my seat extend that deeper contact through my left leg. I rarely ever have to go farther than the squeeze from the hip to my thigh so my lower leg (spur) rarely ever gets to the point of touching him before the canter is started.

Consider this..

To do tempi changes every stride the rider just doesn't have enough time to swing the outside leg back, put on the inside and repeat the for the next change that is occurring under the rider so more quieter aids are required.
 
#33 ·
I was worried there when someone said that my description of leg yield had the driving leg mixed up. Even if I had never read a website instruction, my instinct would be to have the inside (driving) leg at the girth and the outside at a supporting position (passive) behind the girth to guard the hindquarter from slipping out.
In reality , driving legs (the one that creates the imputus) are almost always at the girth . That's where there is a bundle of nerves (can't remember the name) that makes it a very sensitive area and automatically will cause the horse to want to move, have imputus.

The leg yield is MORE FORWARD than sideways. you might even think of it as 2/3 forward, 1/3 sideways. Don't think sooo much of sideways.
However, the aid for sideways is applied rythmically, with each step and then you STOP applying that leg and think Forward! Or rather you support the horse with forward , such as kind of holding the outside rein .

As for your confusion of inside and outside. The inside is always on the inside of the very small arc you create with your bend. So, you are mvig your horse to the left but since you have bent him a teeny tiney amount to the right, your RIGHT side is the inside. And don't be fooled by focussing on the rail for inside/outside. You'll get used to it.
When you try LY with your horse, try for just one step over, one forwrad, and one over, then drop the contact (and I mean to on the buckle loose) reach forwared and pat that good horse. He did what you asked. Remember that you are learning/teaching. Doing one or two steps correctly is what you are after for the time being. You need to give a big release and praise for your horse to know he did it!
I do one or two steps of LY on the trail all the time and them a big "good boy!' Horses need that release to know they did the right thing.

As far as canter goes, I learned the way others have described as a beginner method. I still use that, and actually, I am still a beginner in that respect. One thing I read and have found to be true in actual practise, is that if your horse swings his hindquarters inward as many are want to do due to natural crookedness, canter on for a bit and instead of trying to push his hindquarter back to the rail, thing of shifting his shoulder over to that they track in front of the hind legs, where they should.,

Also, if you guys are learning canter depart, than reward your horse after just that: CANTER DEPART. At least at first.
After a bit, then you canter on and work on the quality of the canter.
 
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