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This is a discussion on Need To Understand within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category

     
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        01-10-2010, 11:37 PM
      #1
    Green Broke
    Need To Understand

    I've been watching a ton of dressage videos. But I still don't understand some of what you guys are talking about. I guess I'll just say what I see on these videos and you guys can tell me if I'm mistaken.... Just don't be mean to me because I'm trying to understand : ) You'll just have to excuse that I'm learning and don't really know anything lol.

    French Kiss


    Seems slightly behind the vertical? Isn't the vertical from the forehead to the ground?
    I see his hind hooves suspend in the air and point down. But it seems they do the same action throughout no matter what the front is doing. To me it looks like the horse isn't relaxed. He also seems to be off on the front. Like he is trying hard to pull himself forward at the walk.

    Sachmo
    I freeze framed this at 1:20. From what I have read that is on the vertical? Right? His hind legs when lifted point straight down (like a ballerinas). But they still don't have as much action as the front leg. In the extended trot the hind legs are not as reachy as the front legs. I froze it at 2:13 and 2:21, would that be considered behind the vertical? On the traverse at about 2:34 his front legs are suspended but his hind aren't. At the walk doesn't the rider normally release the horse a bit? She seems like she is tugging to hold him in the walk.

    I don't know this horse's name
    The extended trot is good? I see a lot of hind leg action. You can actually tell the changes when you watch his hind legs. I couldn't really tell about the vertical because the camera angle is from slightly above.

    I didn't want to do this but I have a need to understand. Still afraid you all are going to make fun of me. : / Anything you guys could point out I would appreciate.
         
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        01-11-2010, 02:51 PM
      #2
    Weanling
    Videos are a bit long to watch all the way through, but I'll do my best to answer!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShutUpJoe    
    French Kiss
    Seems slightly behind the vertical? Isn't the vertical from the forehead to the ground?
    I see his hind hooves suspend in the air and point down. But it seems they do the same action throughout no matter what the front is doing. To me it looks like the horse isn't relaxed. He also seems to be off on the front. Like he is trying hard to pull himself forward at the walk.
    can't see a lot wrong going on there, his hind leg action seems to be standard for a GP dressage horse ...

    Quote:
    Sachmo
    I freeze framed this at 1:20. From what I have read that is on the vertical? Right? His hind legs when lifted point straight down (like a ballerinas). But they still don't have as much action as the front leg. In the extended trot the hind legs are not as reachy as the front legs. I froze it at 2:13 and 2:21, would that be considered behind the vertical? On the traverse at about 2:34 his front legs are suspended but his hind aren't. At the walk doesn't the rider normally release the horse a bit? She seems like she is tugging to hold him in the walk.
    if the horse's nose is at this / sort of angle then he's behind the vertical, this | is a more correct position,
    This \ is totally wrong LOL

    The way the horse's legs move rather depends on the horse, some horses are very light in front and have an extravagant movement (high stepping) others not so much - there are very few horses which have extravagant movement behind and in front so there will be a difference in the height the horse's front and back feet go...

    Giving the horse his head in walk depends on whether or not the movement [in the test] requires the rider to give the horse a free rein or not.

    Quote:
    I don't know this horse's name
    The extended trot is good? I see a lot of hind leg action. You can actually tell the changes when you watch his hind legs. I couldn't really tell about the vertical because the camera angle is from slightly above.
    the horse's name is Warum Nicht, yes his extended trot is very good, and he seems to be on the vertical most of the time ...
         
        01-11-2010, 05:27 PM
      #3
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lobelia Overhill    
    if the horse's nose is at this / sort of angle then he's behind the vertical, this | is a more correct position,
    This \ is totally wrong LOL
    This is with the horse going left to right.
    Actually, having the nose slightly in front of the vertical is generally considered correct. Depending on the horse's conformation, the horse being directly on the vertical can indicate a locked jowel and a lot of the same neck muscling that we see in Rolkured horses. Personally, I feel that a relaxed horse doing the work correctly whose nose is in front of the vertical (but still with a soft poll and jowel) is going to get a way higher score than one who is on the vertical and locked in place. Behind the vertical is what I would call "totally wrong LOL".

    I highly recommend to the OP to go watch local dressage lessons with a reputable trainer and try to attend more clinics and symposiums. It is much easier to learn dressage in an environment geared towards learning than from videos of Olympic Grand Prix rides. Even for upper level riders it is often useless to watch videos of horses at shows because that is not where the training of the horse occurs. While watching videos of other people's tests can help you to learn the pattern and often what the judges are looking for at a certain level, they will not teach you proper classical dressage training methods.
    There are also many good books and videos geared towards teaching basic dressage concepts. For the good of the Horse and FTGOT Rider are two excellent books, as well as anything by Sally Swift and any Klimke's book.

    Good luck!
         
        01-11-2010, 10:24 PM
      #4
    Green Broke
    I'll check out those books. I don't know of one dressage barn around here. Although the lady I board with claims to have worked at one. I live in a western horse world, lol.

    Thanks for the input.
         
        01-13-2010, 08:06 PM
      #5
    Foal
    Check out Dressage Unscrambled by Bill Woods. He is hilarious and the book is really fun and interesting!!
         
        01-13-2010, 08:45 PM
      #6
    Yearling
    I found Jane Savoie's videos on youtube helpful.
         
        01-13-2010, 08:50 PM
      #7
    Showing
    My best recommendation is to read "Tug of War: Classical versus 'Modern' Dressage" - it will explain this, and more!
         
        01-13-2010, 11:13 PM
      #8
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by starlinestables    
    I found Jane Savoie's videos on youtube helpful.
    I agree; I love that lady. *hugs Jane Savoie*

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
    My best recommendation is to read "Tug of War: Classical versus 'Modern' Dressage" - it will explain this, and more!
    I need to buy that book, and his DVD! ~ Too bad all the horse stores and tack shops are so far from where I live.


    I'd recommend Phillipe Karl's Twisted Truthes of Modern Dressage. I don't quite agree with everything in it (but, you can't agree with everything!), but I still love it. It's a bit of a difficult read, though. There's a few translation errors that you have to find your way around, and it makes lots of references directed to people with a lot prerequisite knowledge of dressage.
    I've heard good things about Klimke's books, but I have yet to find where to get them. I also really enjoyed reading Gillian Higgins' How Your Horse Moves, it's really helpful to know the structure and function of the horse's body and what the effects of different actions are. ~
         
        01-13-2010, 11:25 PM
      #9
    Started
    I have to agree with what anebel said. You don't want to be behind the verticle, some horses do it on their own without "help" though. I prefer being a little infront actually.
         
        01-13-2010, 11:48 PM
      #10
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dressagexlee    

    I need to buy that book, and his DVD! ~ Too bad all the horse stores and tack shops are so far from where I live.
    ~
    A friend of mine (boards at HCS too) just got his DVD, and The Horse Store has his book :)
         

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