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New Rider, Getting an outline

This is a discussion on New Rider, Getting an outline within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • The basics of how to get y0u outline horse
  • How to get a horse soft and supple to carry himself in dressage

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    01-19-2012, 09:30 AM
  #11
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
What are "basic dressage moves"? Just curious as I don't really know.
Walk trot and canter as described in the USEF dressage rulebook, circles or varying sizes, serpentines, figure 8s, straightness, and leg yeilds.

Basic dresasage moves = basic good riding.
     
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    01-19-2012, 09:37 AM
  #12
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot    
Walk trot and canter as described in the USEF dressage rulebook, circles or varying sizes, serpentines, figure 8s, straightness, and leg yeilds.

Basic dresasage moves = basic good riding.
Hmmmmm..... OK. What is the point of calling it "basic dressage moves" then? It's just something most horses (western or english) can do anyway.
bsms likes this.
     
    01-19-2012, 09:45 AM
  #13
Green Broke
I suppose because its the basics of starting out?

I can walk a beginner round a serpentine, doesn't mean they're riding dressage... Maybe the standard to how the horse is ridden?

OP, I would suggest riding a horse who already knows how to come in to an outline, so you can get a feel for it and understand what you should be doing and how to best achieve it.

Multiple things help a horse drop in to an outline, and having the muscle tone to do so plays a big part. If this is your own horse, I would suggest lunging in an outline to help soften up and build the muscles, so its easier on both you AND the horse. Start off with bunjee reins so you're not forcing the head down.

After a week or so, move to side reins- as has been pointed out, if used correctly, you should have no problems. I'm not a fan of people riding in them, unless its a school horse and they're a beginner bouncing on its back.

You need to make sure your horse is moving forwards and from behind on the lunge, not just pootling about. The hind end needs to be engaged.

When your horse has developed a soft, supple back and the muscle to carry himself in an outline I would then start riding him in it.

Everyone else has given you super detailed answers about how its not one thing, its a mixture. But I personally would start off with the lunging if it were my own horse.
     
    01-19-2012, 10:21 AM
  #14
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
Hmmmmm..... OK. What is the point of calling it "basic dressage moves" then?.
Because that's what they are. A training level dressage test consists of free walk, medium walk, working trot, and working canter on straights and circles. Lateral movements such as leg yields are not expected until first level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
It's just something most horses (western or english) can do anyway.
Not to the standard expected to get a 7 or higher from a recognized dressage judge.
     
    01-19-2012, 10:23 AM
  #15
Super Moderator
If you can't afford to take lessons, there are some alternatives. Many instructors (myself included) will appreciate people who want to learn. I often allow people to watch when I am teaching a lesson, as long as the student isn't distracted and agrees to it. Watching other people learning is very beneficial. Also, I will often trade work of lessons, if a person is dedicated. I usually don't need much work to be done, but I will trade for it anyway.
     
    01-20-2012, 04:57 AM
  #16
Weanling
Alison - its a shame not more people out there are like you...

I usually focus on getting the horse forward straight and in a rhythm. I also like to give them a contact to go into - so its not that im holding or pulling them back but giving them something to work into...

When you get it right you will feel them lift up and move underneath themselves....

Theres something about watching a horse when its using itself correctly


And completel agree with getting on a horse that's knows what its doing so you get the feel - makes a huge difference
     
    01-20-2012, 09:55 AM
  #17
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot    
Not to the standard expected to get a 7 or higher from a recognized dressage judge.
How do you (general you) know you'd get 7 and above without showing a horse (at least to the recognized judge at, say, lesson, if not the show)? Even on low levels.

I think I'm with bsms on this one that it doesn't sound right to call W/T/C/circles/serpentines/etc. "basic dressage moves" (at least when you don't know for sure you are riding it so precise to get 7+). It's just the basics without any regard to dressage as a discipline.
     
    01-20-2012, 12:24 PM
  #18
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
How do you (general you) know you'd get 7 and above without showing a horse (at least to the recognized judge at, say, lesson, if not the show)? Even on low levels.
A good dressage trainer with lots of showing experience can tell you what a good movement looks like even if they are not a rated judge. Or if you know someone who is a really good rider, they can give you feedback from the ground.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten_Val    
I think I'm with bsms on this one that it doesn't sound right to call W/T/C/circles/serpentines/etc. "basic dressage moves" (at least when you don't know for sure you are riding it so precise to get 7+). It's just the basics without any regard to dressage as a discipline.
We could go round and round on this.......
They are basic dressage movements because they are what a basic dressage test asks for. They are also the basics of good riding. Because they are both one and the same thing.
     
    01-20-2012, 06:10 PM
  #19
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by mildot    
......They are basic dressage movements because they are what a basic dressage test asks for. They are also the basics of good riding. Because they are both one and the same thing.
Except they are not "one and the same thing".

W/T/C/circles/serpentines done by a jumper in a forward seat would not score well on a dressage test. W/T/C/circles/serpentines done by a western rider in a western saddle wouldn't do so great, either, unless done by a WP rider - but then the horse would move in a way that no dressage judge would approve of.

When I cantered my Appy this morning, I used a western saddle, a forward-like seat but not exactly, loose reins and a rope halter. My western instructors would have been horrified, because I was leaning forward. My weight was almost all in my thighs and stirrups. My horse was extended, going just short of a gallop. I neck reined him. Was it good, basic riding?

Look at my signature. I was in balance with my horse. My gelding was making good time, ears forward, head down (for him). My thighs were glued to the saddle. When he thought about slowing, I whispered "Come on, boy!" and he went back into rhythm. When I settled back a little and took some slack from the reins, he slowed to a trot. Settled further in, and he walked. Said "Whoa", and he stopped.

There is nothing wrong with having a horse and rider W/T/C/circles/serpentines in a basic dressage test. If given by dressage judges, I'd expect them to evaluate based on the rider and horse using an approach that would set them up for success as they continue further on in dressage. But they are NOT basic dressage movements, because lots of horses and riders perform W/T/C/circles/serpentines in a very non-dressage fashion - and do so appropriately.

The basics of dressage and the basics of good riding are not interchangeable. The basics of dressage set you up for success in dressage. The basics of jumpers set you up for success in jumping. The basics of barrel racing set you up for success in barrel racing. But the proper W/T/C of each will look different.
     
    01-20-2012, 06:36 PM
  #20
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsms    
The basics of dressage and the basics of good riding are not interchangeable.
Can you list the differences between the two?
     

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