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New world record... opinions?

This is a discussion on New world record... opinions? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Balagur breyer horse
  • New breyer horse totalis what movement is he in

 
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    12-28-2009, 01:10 PM
  #21
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayfieldk    
i enjoyed watching the little white horse, but at least in the video I watched, he was not pushing from behind in his piaffe. :( all of the 'bounce' and suspension was in the hind end; there was no suspension in the front at all--meaning all the weight is in the front so that the hind end can 'bounce'. His hind legs come underneath his body, but at the sacrifice of tipping his body forward--as you can see in the still, his front leg is not straight.

A very cute pair though, and certainly the loosest I have seen dressage reins on a horse at that level.
As I said, their newest video got deleted for copyright claims. If you could see it, it was amazing. The picture is from CHIO. And it's a pretty dang good piaffe compared to all the "fiaffes" we see today.
     
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    12-28-2009, 01:52 PM
  #22
Green Broke
All I have to say is I have learned a lot from this discussion. I can see the difference in the first video posted and this

Hubertus Schmidt
YouTube - Hubertus Schmidt and Forest Gump NRW - German Masters 2005- Grand Prix Kur

The strides seem freer and the horse seems less tense. I never noticed that much before. Thanks for pointing it out for me you guys.
     
    12-28-2009, 05:25 PM
  #23
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShutUpJoe    
All I have to say is I have learned a lot from this discussion. I can see the difference in the first video posted and this

Hubertus Schmidt
YouTube - Hubertus Schmidt and Forest Gump NRW - German Masters 2005- Grand Prix Kur

The strides seem freer and the horse seems less tense. I never noticed that much before. Thanks for pointing it out for me you guys.
Ah, I love that guy. He's a bit of a "loud" rider, but they make a great team, and the horse is really quite lovely! Actually, I've been looking for that video for a long time, I heard the music years ago but I haven't been able to remember the rider!
     
    12-28-2009, 06:00 PM
  #24
Yearling
He doesn't deserve that score at all. Almost all (or rather all, but I am much too lazy to deal with any nit pickers that will attack me on this) of the movements were stiff and awkward. Some might say this is what harmonious pair looks like, I say the very sight of such a terrible thing being admired makes me laugh. The sensible dressage people should secede from this ridiculous spectacle of FEI dressage if this is what wins.
     
    12-28-2009, 06:02 PM
  #25
Weanling
Ah, I've just found a gem. This is Miss Korelova warming up Balagur at CHIO.

I also found a "home-filmed" performance of their CHIO ride.
     
    12-28-2009, 08:15 PM
  #26
Green Broke
Yes they have some problems... but you guys must admit... can you imagine if that hrose was properly trained? I think that would be simply amazing to see that horse properly trained.
     
    12-28-2009, 08:37 PM
  #27
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridergirl23    
yes they have some problems... but you guys must admit... can you imagine if that hrose was properly trained? I think that would be simply amazing to see that horse properly trained.
Yep, but this debate isn't about the horse's talent and potential, it's about the current way of dressage scoring and what is now deemed as 'perfect' is in fact just so wrong. I would place money that many of these flashy 'modern' dressage horses will break down young. Horses used to be going at Grand Prix well into their teens, with many at high events such as the Olympics and WEG as old as their early 20's and were still going strong! Now, there is no way a horse will remain that sound and strong at such ages when they are being ridden, up, tight and 'flash'.

Totilas could still very well be right at the top of his game if dressage today wasn't so insistant on flashy front ends and nothing behind. But he has been bred to have a this huge, spectacular front end, with not much attention paid to the hind end. So he's still going to find it difficult to correctly execute movements without stiffening his frame. He is build to work all legs, no back. Very different to horses bred a few years back that were bred for their hind end and ability to take weight behind, rather than just being spectacular to look at.

Hence why I'm finding it increasingly hard now to find a youngster for myself that fits the bill of what I'm after in a young dressage horse. I want something with the ability to collect. They look flashy in the photos, but when I request a video almost EVERY foal/yearling I have looked at steps out beautifully in front, but their hocks are out behind them and coming up almost level with their hind end. Yuck! Then I tell the owner that I'm not interested for this reason, and they all question me about it as they think their foal has really amazing movement??? It is just sad now.
     
    12-28-2009, 08:51 PM
  #28
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty    
Yep, but this debate isn't about the horse's talent and potential, it's about the current way of dressage scoring and what is now deemed as 'perfect' is in fact just so wrong. I would place money that many of these flashy 'modern' dressage horses will break down young. Horses used to be going at Grand Prix well into their teens, with many at high events such as the Olympics and WEG as old as their early 20's and were still going strong! Now, there is no way a horse will remain that sound and strong at such ages when they are being ridden, up, tight and 'flash'.

Totilas could still very well be right at the top of his game if dressage today wasn't so insistant on flashy front ends and nothing behind. But he has been bred to have a this huge, spectacular front end, with not much attention paid to the hind end. So he's still going to find it difficult to correctly execute movements without stiffening his frame. He is build to work all legs, no back. Very different to horses bred a few years back that were bred for their hind end and ability to take weight behind, rather than just being spectacular to look at.

Hence why I'm finding it increasingly hard now to find a youngster for myself that fits the bill of what I'm after in a young dressage horse. I want something with the ability to collect. They look flashy in the photos, but when I request a video almost EVERY foal/yearling I have looked at steps out beautifully in front, but their hocks are out behind them and coming up almost level with their hind end. Yuck! Then I tell the owner that I'm not interested for this reason, and they all question me about it as they think their foal has really amazing movement??? It is just sad now.
yes, I havent been exposed to this very much because in my area, dressage is still the same as it always was. There ae two 20 year old horses that flex and look at good as a five year old, not exagerating! I was amazed when I got into dressage to findout a 30 year old horse was still going well (but Toby sadly died last year because of colic ) It is amazing when dressage it taught well.
I also think if totalis was trained better then they would get a higher mark, can you imagine, a horse with that front end with a great hind end? That would be the ultamite dressage hrose, lol.
     
    12-28-2009, 09:09 PM
  #29
Weanling
Exactly, it's the same with racehorses nowadays. We see so many more breakdowns on the track now because they've bred the bone out of them in place for faster, but less resililent horses.

Here's some food for thought. If you've looked at Salinero's EuroChamp '09 performance and compared it to his old WEG '06 performance, he just looks like he's really degraded physically. You can see it especially in the walk. It breaks my heart when the camera zooms in on his head; the look in his eyes is just... dead with an air of sadness. Van Grunsven says that she doesn't plan on retiring him anytime soon, either.
     
    12-28-2009, 09:19 PM
  #30
Green Broke
OM MY GOSH! I never noticed slineros change! I have a breyer of him in my room. I like the 06 test. I think dressage in compotitions should be almost (or close to) classical dressage, or at least there principals about the well being of the horse instead of a 99 c ribbon
     

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