New world record... opinions? - Page 4 - The Horse Forum
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post #31 of 65 Old 12-28-2009, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly ridergirl. That's what this is all about, dressage in competition SHOULD be going by the training scale or classical methods, or at least maintaining a focus on having a soft back at the very least. But it doesnt. And people are aware of that, but unfortunately this is the step that modern dressage has taken and i would say that we'll see it degrade even further in the future.

Re Totilas working more 'correctly' and having a back end to match the fronts. If that horse's hind legs were 'correct' they would be parallel to his front legs. If that happened, he would end up with smashed ribs and a rider with broken legs. it is not phycially possible for a horse to keep his hinds parallel to his front legs if the front's are heading to the moon like his are. Thus what i have been saying about being difficult to find horses now that can collect decently, not just 'fake it'. They are all bred to have really huge front end movement, so much so that it is not actually possible for the hind legs to catch up.
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post #32 of 65 Old 12-28-2009, 11:44 PM
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There is a huge debate about this on COTH.

Gordon Wright once told a student to take up swimming because he would never be a good rider, that rider was George Morris.
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post #33 of 65 Old 12-29-2009, 05:58 AM
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also take note that totilas isn't bred to have this movement--watch him trotting in the second video i posted on a loose rein. He looks like a normal, but nice, horse.

Then we crank the head in and push and he gets flashy--sacrificing the hind end.

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post #34 of 65 Old 12-29-2009, 06:01 AM
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Sorry if I ruffled any feathers. I have no experience with dressage, so what I saw did not seem too bad to me. Though having it pointed out, I do see what you all mean.

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post #35 of 65 Old 12-30-2009, 05:45 PM
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Wow! That's some difference in Salinero! In the more recent video he just looks robotic to me...

I love the videos of Balagur! I'm nowhere near qualified to judge, but compared to so many GP dressage horses I've seen he looks so loose and relaxed through his back and neck!

Totilas is a gorgeous horse, and the test was spectacular, but nowhere near deserving of the astronomical score, in my humblest and least qualified opinion. He just looks like a tight spring, with none of the softness and relaxation that is idealized in most of what I've read of dressage. The still shots that were posted really bring home the gritty little details that those flicking front toes distract from in the video.

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post #36 of 65 Old 12-30-2009, 07:15 PM
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Oh, I just found out that I saved myself a copy of Korelova's CHIO ride on my computer! I will have to upload it and show it to you guys, hm? ~
I like her so much because she's such a kind, soft, feeling rider. And given Balagur's history (bottom paragraph), they are doing a fine job. Her warm-up video really inspired me as well.

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post #37 of 65 Old 12-30-2009, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinshorses View Post
I recently started a thread about feel. That is a great example of feel, timing and cadence. I was impressed. He wasn't ever behind the vertical and niether one of them were pulling on the reins. Fantastic!!!
I have to agree with you; this was a test that I actually enjoyed watching. I'm just not seeing what everyone else is seeing...the horse wasn't behind the vertical, he appeared to enjoy the job, rider was relaxed and quiet with his seat, legs, and hands.

So, to the OP, yes, I think he deserved a good score, which he obviously got.

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post #38 of 65 Old 12-30-2009, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ShutUpJoe View Post
All I have to say is I have learned a lot from this discussion. I can see the difference in the first video posted and this

Hubertus Schmidt
YouTube - Hubertus Schmidt and Forest Gump NRW - German Masters 2005- Grand Prix Kur

The strides seem freer and the horse seems less tense. I never noticed that much before. Thanks for pointing it out for me you guys.
That horse seemed to lose all impulsion in a lot of areas...I don't think he moved very freely at all, to be honest. He also moved forward quite a bit in his piaffe, and lost impulsion on every pirouette he did, like it almost hurt his hind end to do it...

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post #39 of 65 Old 12-30-2009, 09:04 PM
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I won't get in on the rolkur debate...I guess in a sense, that could explain the horse's hyperextension in the front end; I've seen alot of horses do that naturally too, in the field 'showin' off too...I thought that guy may just have been really animated. I don't like to judge just based on what someone else says. I'll never meet the guy so I won't know for sure.

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post #40 of 65 Old 12-30-2009, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2pride View Post
I have to agree with you; this was a test that I actually enjoyed watching. I'm just not seeing what everyone else is seeing...the horse wasn't behind the vertical, he appeared to enjoy the job, rider was relaxed and quiet with his seat, legs, and hands.

So, to the OP, yes, I think he deserved a good score, which he obviously got.
Yep the rider is lovely and relaxed. But the horse? If you tell me that that horse is relaxed, engaged and THROUGH I might vomit.... or tell you to learn a bit about dressage. If that is relaxation, throughness and engagement... I'd HATE to see what a tense horse looked like

But you enjoyed it, just like the multitudes of uneducated spectators who want big and flashy, which is why modern dressage is now turning into a spectator sport, rather than trying to remain traditional and true to the principals of dressage. We ride dressage to have a horse that is soft and relaxed in his work, is happy to perform and is a joy to ride. Modern dressage has created hot horses, that are tense, spectacular, behind the vertical that move with all legs and no back.
Unfortunately this is the way dressage is heading, sad but true. But if the FEI wants dressage to become a spectator sport, there's not a hell of a lot anyone can do about it because general public bring more money into the sport. After all, it's the money that decides.
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