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Non traditional breeds in dressage.

This is a discussion on Non traditional breeds in dressage. within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category

     
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        05-18-2009, 09:51 PM
      #21
    Started
    It's my biggest pet peeve about people that argue that a horse that is a rescue should never be bred - and I know I'm opening a can of worms here, but to steal one of the few arguments from Fugly that I actually agree with....

    Ferdinand won the Kentucky Derby. He was slaughtered. Had someone intercepted him prior to slaughter, he certainly meets the basic standards for breeding (for the purpose for which he was successful at - yes there are nuances that can be argued but follow me here k?). So a horse may be of quality that falls into bad hands or hard times and then becomes a rescue - does that negate their true quality as a horse that originally made them worthy of being considered breedable? No way - not in my opinion anyway. Does that mean that my spotted saddle horse that I can paint stripes on and wrap in a tarp depsite having the conformation of a gazelle crossed with a water buffalo that is a rescue is worthy of breeding? Absolutely not. However I'm not against breeding to better the breed - whatever the breed - provided that you are breeding for the intended purpose of that breed's goals as set forth in their books.

    Here's an example - my well bred TB mare was a "rescue" in that she's off the track and was sent to a dealer, she was hard to handle and had some issues. With time and retraining, she's been amazing coupled with a stellar pedigree and a lovely conformation. I bred her to Mannhattan, an Oldenburg stallion with excellent jumper lines that also has dressage offspring (and some eventers as well). I want a jumper - and bred for such to improve the lines with two horses that compliment each other. Does that mean I shouldn't ALSO be a part of the rescue that is at my barn? Absolutely not in my opinion.

    Now take this - *Bekas is a Polish bred Arabian stud, imported from the Royal Polish Stud know as the Janowski Stud, and bears the royal brand of the crown over the J, and his stud number. His lines were those that were rescued in WWII by Macarthur and were used to found the Polish Trakehner breed, as well as influence several other European WB breeding stock. Now get this - HE IS A RESCUE. He is now 29 years old - and likely no longer viable. But if he was, could you imagine NOT breeding a horse of that caliber and history? With movement, a show and race record, and breed recognition that spans not just studbooks, but decades???

    See my point?

    Breeding has its place when done right. If everyone wanted to do the same thing there would be no need for different breeds. If someone wants to go to the Olympics, or the highest levels of whatever sport they are at, does that mean they HAVE to have the best bred of the horse of choice? No, but it sure helps. Now THAT said...these days, there are things that are rescues showing up at auctions and rescues all over the country that would knock your socks off....just look at Bekas. But yes, those finds are few and far between and take a very VERY good eye!
         
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        05-18-2009, 09:53 PM
      #22
    Trained
    Quote:
    I love my horse for what she is 3/4 TB 1/4 Shire, Shire Sporthorse, TB Sporthorse, TB Cross, Shire Cross, AWB, WHATEVER
    And that is how it should be :) That is all that she asks for too :)
         
        05-18-2009, 10:03 PM
      #23
    Banned
    Even rescues can do dressage and well.
         
        05-18-2009, 10:08 PM
      #24
    Trained
    I agree, just because a horse is a rescue - doesn't mean they weren't bred educatedly. Just because a horse is a rescue, doesn't mean they don't have great conformation.
         
        05-18-2009, 10:10 PM
      #25
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spyder    
    Even rescues can do dressage and well.
    well sure, because a rescue is not a breed OR a type - it's a situation in life that means a horse needs saving from present conditions/owner. It has no bearing on age, color, breed, or ability and training. Abuse and neglect are absolutely non-discrimitory...just ask Bekas, or his barnmates that are from the other end of the spectrum. ;)
         
        05-18-2009, 10:24 PM
      #26
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CJ82Sky    
    well sure, because a rescue is not a breed OR a type - it's a situation in life that means a horse needs saving from present conditions/owner. It has no bearing on age, color, breed, or ability and training. Abuse and neglect are absolutely non-discrimitory...just ask Bekas, or his barnmates that are from the other end of the spectrum. ;)

    And that IS my point.

    I have no problem with what breeding a horse is as long as it does what is required.

    I judged on small show some time back and placed this little ponyish fellow first.

    I found out later it was a rescue used for driving and only did dressage for the last 3 months. There were some pi$$ed off people at that show but the pony was the best...simple as that.
         
        05-18-2009, 10:26 PM
      #27
    Started
    Smile

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Spyder    
    And that IS my point.

    I have no problem with what breeding a horse is as long as it does what is required.

    I judged on small show some time back and placed this little ponyish fellow first.

    I found out later it was a rescue used for driving and only did dressage for the last 3 months. There were some pi$$ed off people at that show but the pony was the best...simple as that.
    Please come judge some shows here? The politics kill me! I'd rather a PMU that moves well win over a $$ horse IF they earn it. But if that WB is better...well there you go - they earned it!
         
        05-20-2009, 09:48 AM
      #28
    Yearling
    Politics politics politics. It's all about conformation of the individual horse and their heart to win. I have never paid attention to breeding at all...one because I never intend to breed myself and run a strict bachelor barn with geldings...two because it gets so nit picky. My first horse won everything under the sun regionally and probably could have gone farther if I had the $$$...he has horrible lower leg conformation...they turn every which way. But he has the heart and when he enters the arena he's just one of those horses that has "it." My new horse...I don't know anything about his breeding...the seller said he was Fresian TB...but he could be Mustang/Percheron for all I know...but he's well tied together and moves great.

    What I would think would be awesome is a social experiment? Get a bay horse...not typey...just a typical horse. Who knows what breed he is. Stick him in a 6 horse trailer pulled by one of those ritzy trucks...splash a big trainer name all over the place in small talk...dress to the nines. See what your score is. Next show...same horse...two horse beater trailer pulled by a old F150. Dress sharp...but not brand name. See what your scores are. Wouldn't THAT be interesting?
         
        05-22-2009, 01:16 AM
      #29
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hotreddun    
    What I would think would be awesome is a social experiment? Get a bay horse...not typey...just a typical horse. Who knows what breed he is. Stick him in a 6 horse trailer pulled by one of those ritzy trucks...splash a big trainer name all over the place in small talk...dress to the nines. See what your score is. Next show...same horse...two horse beater trailer pulled by a old F150. Dress sharp...but not brand name. See what your scores are. Wouldn't THAT be interesting?

    Hahaha I totally Agree :] There is a lot of Truth in that Statement.
         
        05-22-2009, 06:43 PM
      #30
    Yearling
    I agree with what people said about it being about the confirmation, not the breed. In a 2-month old issue of Dressage Today, there was a mustang competing at 3rd level and he did great. The critiquer (whatever her name was) complimented the horse a lot and praised the rider for bringing along the horse to that level, that she had found mustangs who had the skill and confirmation to compete at that level. I rode a non-registered POA gelding for four years, and he always recieved high scores in dressage, and I have been riding a QH mare who always gets high scores. Granted, I'm not riding at 3rd level, but they are great horses who are trained up to 2nd or 3rd level. I also ride an Arab cross and a TB/mini cross who are great dressage horses. They may not be going to the olympics, but they have the confirmation and skill to do well regardless of their breed. I hate people who judge horses based on their breed, not their confirmation. A TB can do just as well as a WB in dressage, there just may not be as many of that breed with the correct confirmation for dressage. Sorry if I sound really grumpy or whatever, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
         

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