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post #21 of 35 Old 12-28-2009, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Allison Finch View Post
Their performance of a movement reflects in their DESIRE to do it. I have seen many horses who simply put more of themselves into their job. I have also seen many more gifted horses who do not have that desire. They hold too much in reserve. It shows loud and clear in their performance.

I'm surprised you don't think a horse who desires to please will not have this reflected in their overall performance.
I believe that a horse who has the desire but not the talent will always lose to a horse that has the talent but lacks the spark - technical merit.

A horse that has both is a star.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just explaining why I'm right.

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post #22 of 35 Old 12-28-2009, 09:45 AM
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If a horse doesn't have the conformation to do the movements required, and has all the heart to try - will still not compare in movements with the horses who are bred for the sport conformationally.

Just how it is. I have a friend who has a beautiful Appendix, and is doing Level 1 in competition. They do quite well, but because he cannot compete against the WB's that he compeates against, he just doesn't get as good of marks as they do in the movements.

Heart is great, yes, but it does not outweigh conformation.

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post #23 of 35 Old 12-28-2009, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by iridehorses View Post
I believe that a horse who has the desire but not the talent will always lose to a horse that has the talent but lacks the spark - technical merit.

A horse that has both is a star.

I have to agree. A horse can have all the heart in the world, and because of that, go quite far. But if you put that horse next to one that has the flashy movement, he'll lose every time.
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post #24 of 35 Old 12-28-2009, 11:16 AM
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He would probably do fine at lower levels. I find it that dressage is a little more excepting then most other disciplines. You see ponies, large breeds, mixed breds and imports all competing against each other sometimes. In hunters, most trainers encourage their students to get wb/tb types to compete in more recognized shows.

It really depends on the horse himself. If you're just doing it for fun, great, you'll probably do fine. But don't expect to get to second or third level easily, or at all with him.
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post #25 of 35 Old 12-28-2009, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Skyhuntress View Post
I have to agree. A horse can have all the heart in the world, and because of that, go quite far. But if you put that horse next to one that has the flashy movement, he'll lose every time.

All things being equal, you are right.

We are talking the entry levels of dressage, here. The horse is (or should be) tested on technical correctness of the movements (accuracy), willingness to move forward, submission and lack of resistance, and yes, movement. It is too bad when a judge gets enamored with a flashy mover who executes movements poorly and with resistance, and then places it above a less gifted horse (movement-wise) who executes movements accurately with no resistance. I have ridden these nice moving horses who, by my own admission, should not have placed as high as they did. I take no pride in such wins, although the owners could care less.
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post #26 of 35 Old 12-28-2009, 03:52 PM
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Just from a judge's point of view and I can only relate to what I have judged and from what I have heard from fellow judges (yes discussion DO take place in private).

A horse exibiting correct movement within the level competing at (assuming nothing else is taken into consideration) should get an automatic 5. What increases that mark will be animation, presence, mettle, and correctness of the actual movement. A horse that has an extraordinary large ground covering movement will have difficulty in collecting so the horse that has say better than average (but not extraordinary) movement will usually do better in those collected movements. What Allison was referring to will show up as obedience and presence and becomes part of the whole package (but also in the collective marks at the bottom of the test).

Many times an average moving horse succeeds at the higher levels even if they have been beaten by the horse with the huge movement.

Reminds me of a friend that had such a horse. Beautiful movement. One test they did a breathtaking extended trot across the diagonal.................however you are supposed to stop when you reach the fence at the other side.................oopps. The horse that won was a very nice horse,very obedient and went on to do GP. My friends horse never went past medium.
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post #27 of 35 Old 12-29-2009, 09:06 AM
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I had an aged ott t/b that had high withers, a little sway backed, and his movement was the inspiration for me entering the dressage world!

The purpose of the training level test is to confirm the horses muscles are supple, loose and moving freely forward in a clear rhythm, accepting contact with the bit (not 'on the bit', there is a difference).

Go for it!! You probably won't even see his age with a good riser pad! Best advice I ever got was it's all about the rhythm at training level. Get him loose and if his back has a nice swing to it still, why not!!
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post #28 of 35 Old 12-29-2009, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the words of advice, I have only had this horse for a week and it has been very rocky thanks to the harsh words of some people that I use to ride with and their disapproval of my choice of a horse.

Somebody obviously taught him to "tuck up" but not with real contact, thankfully he is not luggy or trying to grab the bit, I just think whoever trained him thought this type of headset was "pretty." Any advice on how to undo this? The best thing I can think is to just push him up, he will on occasion get on the bit, then drop back down into this cramped headset. The rest of his body seems pretty loose and flowing though despite this overflexion. I am riding him in a simple three piece o-ring snaffle.

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post #29 of 35 Old 12-29-2009, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by QHDragon View Post
Thank you all for the words of advice, I have only had this horse for a week and it has been very rocky thanks to the harsh words of some people that I use to ride with and their disapproval of my choice of a horse.

Somebody obviously taught him to "tuck up" but not with real contact, thankfully he is not luggy or trying to grab the bit, I just think whoever trained him thought this type of headset was "pretty." Any advice on how to undo this? The best thing I can think is to just push him up, he will on occasion get on the bit, then drop back down into this cramped headset. The rest of his body seems pretty loose and flowing though despite this overflexion. I am riding him in a simple three piece o-ring snaffle.

They did this because they did not know what to do with the rest of him. It's the to throw a saddle over him and "pretend" he is on the bit and no one will notice type of mentality.

You can't do enough lateral work on this horse to correct.
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post #30 of 35 Old 12-29-2009, 06:33 PM
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Well, he is swayed, but if he is good at dressage - then go for it, there is pratically nothing stopping you!

Ride to live, and live to ride!
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