Ok so how much fun is the pirouette!? - Page 2
   

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Ok so how much fun is the pirouette!?

This is a discussion on Ok so how much fun is the pirouette!? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • How much motion does it take to pirouette
  • Pirouette suspension dressage

 
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    04-23-2009, 06:57 PM
  #11
Weanling
-_- their hind legs (ideally) should stay in the same place, but other than that the horse is not cantering in place.
     
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    04-23-2009, 07:07 PM
  #12
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by xeventer17    
-_- their hind legs (ideally) should stay in the same place, but other than that the horse is not cantering in place.
Yes absolutely.
     
    04-23-2009, 08:40 PM
  #13
Foal
I love the pirouette. My mare just started doing it at the trot, and was only doing a 1/4 turn at a time. I don't want to sour her at something. She is super athletic, and this comes easy to her.


I pirouette still has some forward motion, yet is in a very very tight circle. You always want that forward movement. If there is no forward movement, then you are doing a piaffe.
     
    04-23-2009, 09:13 PM
  #14
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trissacar    
LOL! I didn't teach this horse his pirouettes so its pretty easy to collect him. I guess that's why I find it fun because he's so good about it. My trainer used to do them in the Grand prix jumpers for hard turns. My green tb its very hard to do on. She's like "NO I wanna run!"

MI Eventer is correct. In jumping they would be called rollbacks. A true pirouette would never be performed in jumping at any level. A well done correct pirouette takes a considerable amout of time from start to finish to complete one entire turn, whereas a rollback is a semblence of a very loose type of pirouette. It does not have the collection or suspension of a dressage pirouette and is done much quicker as it is typically done to cut down on time to get to the next fence.....and again usually in a jump off.

A correctly done dressage pirouette requires the hind legs to describe a very very small tight circle and maintain the correct canter striding with each step. The forehand is lifted somewhat as the haunches come under the horse's body and a lightened front end allows that forehand to move sideways and circle the haunches without falling on the inside shoulder (supported by the outside rein/leg).

The Western or even English rollback is a movement desighed to turn the horse back on itself at speed. It is possible the haunches may swing to the outside and away from the body of the horse but that would depend on just how good the horse is trained and how supportive the rider is in keeping control of the outside shoulder. It is also acceptable to turn the rollback where the horse is swiveling on just one hind foot and the actual canter gait will not be maintained throughout the entire movement.
     
    04-23-2009, 09:24 PM
  #15
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Honda    
I love the pirouette. My mare just started doing it at the trot, and was only doing a 1/4 turn at a time. I don't want to sour her at something. She is super athletic, and this comes easy to her.


I pirouette still has some forward motion, yet is in a very very tight circle. You always want that forward movement. If there is no forward movement, then you are doing a piaffe.
yep.
     
    04-23-2009, 10:34 PM
  #16
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane Honda    
I love the pirouette. My mare just started doing it at the trot, and was only doing a 1/4 turn at a time. I don't want to sour her at something. She is super athletic, and this comes easy to her.


I pirouette still has some forward motion, yet is in a very very tight circle. You always want that forward movement. If there is no forward movement, then you are doing a piaffe.

Two things here. In your first paragraph you say your horse is doing a pirouette at trot and that is something that is rarely done ( never asked for in any competition) because it requires extreme balance. Most pirouetts are asked for and train for at walk or canter.

In your second paragraph you have made an incorrect assumption. Just because it is a tight circle with little forward movement (actually the forward movement is converted into sidways/turning movement) does not exclude it from BEING a pirouette.

Certainly it would be a piaffe but it is STILL a pirouette. The horse Dynasty (my boy's relative) did an extended trot through the diagonal to a piaffe into a full pirouette then completed the extended trot. It was one of the movements that gained them a Bronze at the 1988 Olympics.

For clarification here is a piaffe pirouette.

     
    04-23-2009, 11:38 PM
  #17
Trained
Yeah thanks Spyder!! You said everything much more eloquently than I would have :P
     
    04-23-2009, 11:45 PM
  #18
Trained
Great posts Spyder! Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it!

I definitely wouldn't be asking for a P on a green horse.
     
    04-23-2009, 11:50 PM
  #19
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIEventer    
Great posts Spyder! Thanks for sharing, I really appreciate it!

I definitely wouldn't be asking for a P on a green horse.
And I wouldn't be doing alot of things that ur doing but you don't hear me telling you about it.
AGAIN.
Canter Pirouettes ARE NOT rollbacks. They are not comparable.
     
    04-24-2009, 12:00 AM
  #20
Trained
Trissacar. I realize that you are a fabulous rider and know everything there is to know about riding a horse, but you need to understand that we are not saying a pirouette and a roll back are the same thing.
Simply stated, no grand prix jumper is going to collect the canter to the extent that they are in a canter collected nearly enough to do a pirouette in the middle of a course. They are going to do a roll back to save time.
And I think we've all been skirting around the issue that doing a canter pirouette improperly on a horse not conditioned to perform the degree of collection required for one is going to end up with severe hock damage. Even a conditioned horse who is improperly performing an excessive amount of canter pirouettes is going to blow something.
     

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