Ok so how much fun is the pirouette!? - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 12:07 AM
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LOL! I didn't teach this horse his pirouettes so its pretty easy to collect him. I guess that's why I find it fun because he's so good about it. My trainer used to do them in the Grand prix jumpers for hard turns. My green tb its very hard to do on. She's like "NO I wanna run!"

You stated that your Coach did a P in GP Jumpers for tight turns to the next fence. I stated - they are not P's in Jumping, they are Roll Backs. Then Spyder and Anebel explained why your coach could not of been doing a P in jumpers and explained the differences between a P and a Roll Back.

And I am wondering why you are doing P's with your Green TB? P's are very advanced movements, only asked at mid to upper level dressage tests - because the horse has to be well balanced, muscled, truely engaged to do this particular movement.

P's are beautiful to watch - on well rounded, well schooled mounts who can physically do them correctly. I don't even do P's on my TB. I do Roll Backs, but not P's.
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post #22 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 12:07 AM
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I can't see the rollback in the video she posted. Someone please explain?? My idea of a rollback has always been very different to what I say in that vid.
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post #23 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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"Simply stated, no grand prix jumper is going to collect the canter to the extent that they are in a canter collected nearly enough to do a pirouette in the middle of a course."
I've seen it. But clearly you've already made up your mind.
I will not be answering or looking at anymore of these because almost everyone thinks they are right. And are unwilling to hear anyone else. And are therefor obsolete.
And FYI I know how far to push my horse. She rarely goes lame despite the rigorous training she's in because of the way I take care of her.
ONE WORD STRETCHING.

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post #24 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 12:10 AM
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Miss K - here is a vid of my TB and I working on Roll Backs at a lesson this past winter.

We are only doing these at a trot - but imagine them at a canter.



The objective is - say you have a 2 jump combo. About 10 strides apart from one another.

Fence A and Fence B.

Say the pattern given, is that you have to jump fence B and then roll back to get to fence A - that is when a Roll Back would be effective.

Or in a jump off to cut time out.

The cue's for a roll back - outside aids. Outside rein at the shoulder and outside leg. Sitting deep, looking in the direction you are wanting to go.

Mine aren't that great in this vid, but it gives you an idea.

Last edited by MIEventer; 04-24-2009 at 12:13 AM.
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post #25 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Trissacar View Post
"Simply stated, no grand prix jumper is going to collect the canter to the extent that they are in a canter collected nearly enough to do a pirouette in the middle of a course."
I've seen it. But clearly you've already made up your mind.
I will not be answering or looking at anymore of these because almost everyone thinks they are right. And are unwilling to hear anyone else. And are therefor obsolete.
And FYI I know how far to push my horse. She rarely goes lame despite the rigorous training she's in because of the way I take care of her.
ONE WORD STRETCHING.
I have seen jumpers do something that is close but what you are missing is that most rollbacks are turns made through the pivoting of the horse around one hind leg and that one difference immediately takes it out of a pirouette as defined by dressage.

Any dressage horse doing a pirouette from any gait that results in a pivot will not get a score above 4 and could go lower.

As far as us unwilling to to hear anyone else...it would appear that it is YOU that is unwilling to listen to someone else. I am more than willing to hear any reasonable arguements you wish to present to back your thoughts but it is obvious you are not willing to hear anything from others.
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post #26 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
Two things here. In your first paragraph you say your horse is doing a pirouette at trot and that is something that is rarely done ( never asked for in any competition) because it requires extreme balance. Most pirouetts are asked for and train for at walk or canter.

In your second paragraph you have made an incorrect assumption. Just because it is a tight circle with little forward movement (actually the forward movement is converted into sidways/turning movement) does not exclude it from BEING a pirouette.

Certainly it would be a piaffe but it is STILL a pirouette. The horse Dynasty (my boy's relative) did an extended trot through the diagonal to a piaffe into a full pirouette then completed the extended trot. It was one of the movements that gained them a Bronze at the 1988 Olympics.

For clarification here is a piaffe pirouette.

YouTube - P.S.LUSITANO PIRUETA PIAFFE

I never said I was doing competition. I SAID my horse was doing 1/4 pirouettes at a trot. I won't ask for anything more right now until she gets her muscles built up. I am doing them as an excersize.


Next time I give an explanation, should I just quote it directly from some dressage how-to handbook?

Last edited by Jubilee Rose; 04-24-2009 at 11:58 PM.
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post #27 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jane Honda View Post
I never said I was doing competition. I SAID my horse was doing 1/4 pirouettes at a trot. I won't ask for anything more right now until she gets her muscles built up. I am doing them as an excersize.


Next time I give an explanation, should I just quote it directly from some dressage how-to handbook?

You know, I think I am done with this forum. If things aren't done YOUR way then it's the wrong way. I have had a lot of formal dressage training.

This is why I chose not to join up on a horse forum for a long time...
I think I'm done too!

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post #28 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 01:17 AM
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I think they are the same person..? Im confused.


Interesting to see the english rollbacks...this is what I am used to seeing:
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post #29 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jane Honda View Post
I never said I was doing competition. I SAID my horse was doing 1/4 pirouettes at a trot. I won't ask for anything more right now until she gets her muscles built up. I am doing them as an excersize.


Next time I give an explanation, should I just quote it directly from some dressage how-to handbook?

You know, I think I am done with this forum. If things aren't done YOUR way then it's the wrong way. I have had a lot of formal dressage training.

This is why I chose not to join up on a horse forum for a long time...
And just for clarifiction you do the P at a walk trot then canter you should never go right to a canter P with learning the movement at a slower pace.
And trot P aren't that hard if you are doing leg yielding correctly.
Jane you are doing right by your horse.

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post #30 of 83 Old 04-24-2009, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Spastic_Dove View Post
I think they are the same person..? Im confused.


Interesting to see the english rollbacks...this is what I am used to seeing: YouTube - OK Reining Futurity Show Non Pro Stop-Rollback
yeh that's what im used to seeing too, and I ride english lol
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