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Philippe Karl?

This is a discussion on Philippe Karl? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category

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        08-14-2013, 01:47 AM
      #31
    Super Moderator
    How's the PRE on extended trot work? Don't they have more trouble with that, whereas they have it easier with collected work? I mean, a plus on the collected and a minus on the extended, as far as being competitive in modern dressage.
         
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        08-14-2013, 01:54 AM
      #32
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    how's the PRE on extended trot work? Don't they have more trouble with that, whereas they have it easier with collected work? I mean, a plus on the collected and a minus on the extended, as far as being competitive in modern dressage.
    Any horse can be taught to trot - PRE is no exception.
    His medium is coming for sure - we will see the mark at the show. Extended he is not strong enough to carry yet.
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        08-14-2013, 02:01 AM
      #33
    Super Moderator
    Where does the teaching of the extended trot come in relation to the teaching of collection, such as Piaffe, on the training scale?
         
        08-14-2013, 02:07 AM
      #34
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    Where does the teaching of the extended trot come in relation to the teaching of collection, such as Piaffe, on the training scale?
    Depends entirely on the horse and what and when they offer things.
    Extended is developed from a medium. A medium is taught when the half halt is understood. A little half step can be taught when collecting the walk. Of course some horses offer fun stuff more easily. Changes, half steps, a big trot, a small canter, etc... Is all a little beginning.
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        08-14-2013, 02:52 AM
      #35
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tinyliny    
    Where does the teaching of the extended trot come in relation to the teaching of collection, such as Piaffe, on the training scale?
    It comes after the development of collection, first the 'fold', then the extensions. Lengthening and coming back (transitions within the gait) are done early on, but extension comes from collection.
    Beling and EvilHorseOfDoom like this.
         
        08-14-2013, 03:16 AM
      #36
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
    I'm training an ANCCE registered PRE - just about as iberian as you can get. Cerrada en Bocado lines - he's in my profile pic.
    12 months undersaddle and the thing does a nice couple steps of passage already. Compared to my SWB who is 10, 70% at FEI I1 and has trouble with cadenced half steps...

    Also ETA about the "correct training" thing - yes the horse is correctly trained. 64.7% on his first second level at 10 months undersaddle - now heading into his big comp with 14 entrants in his division and I do expect a top 5 finish.
    I can post a video - but most members here have seen my I1 horse go - this one does not go much differently and has a great medium trot developing which has not made it to film yet. In September I'll post his tests up.
    Oh and he is solidly jumping XC and SJ fences to 2'9 with no problems with scope.
    By far the easiest horse I've trained.

    Congrats. It was not a personal attack. It was just a question and I was not having a go at you or your training methods nor was I suggesting that your horses are not correctly trained. I was stating that any horse (Iberian or otherwise) with incorrect training will not work correctly, regardless of its breeding. Good luck for your comps. Your PRE may be the easiest horse you have trained but all horses are individuals.

    So many people comment about Iberians being an easy ride. So much easier than Warmbloods. There are easy Iberians and hard Iberians, easy Warmbloods and hard Warmbloods... Crazy OTTB's and calm, chilled out OTTB's - saying ony type of horse is any certain way is quite small minded especially as they are all individuals. That's like buying into racial stereotypes for people.
         
        08-14-2013, 03:40 AM
      #37
    Trained
    Certain horses are bred for certain things. Unless you follow the Nazi belief of an Arian race then no, it's not the same as racial stereotyping.
    TBs are bred to race, WBs are bred for performance sport, Iberian horses are bred for collection.
    And considering the PRE breed is one of the oldest, then the breed type is quite well established. Part of that breed type is ridability and trainability. Imo there are far more easy PREs than WBs. Which is why Iberian horses are suggested for the Am rider.

    I know of a few Iberian horses who have the same characteristics as I have described. Which is more than the WBs - I can't name one WB I know offering p-p at 6 years old.
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        08-14-2013, 03:46 AM
      #38
    Weanling
    Yea because at 6 years old thier growth plates have only been fused for a year (which is correct for all breeds) and thier bodies can begin to cope with harder work. That's why tb's have so many soundness problems, they are worked hard when their skeletons are still immature. Iberians may be able to p-p as 6 year olds but are their bodies mature enough to handle the strain long term?
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        08-14-2013, 04:11 AM
      #39
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NaeNae87    
    Yea because at 6 years old thier growth plates have only been fused for a year (which is correct for all breeds) and thier bodies can begin to cope with harder work. That's why tb's have so many soundness problems, they are worked hard when their skeletons are still immature. Iberians may be able to p-p as 6 year olds but are their bodies mature enough to handle the strain long term?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Which is why I say offer P-P. Not school it. Anyone can beat a horse to jig - few horses voluntarily offer it.
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        08-14-2013, 05:50 AM
      #40
    Green Broke
    Living in Germany, I can tell you that PK is pretty much a standard joke.

    And I am a small town rider, I don't compete. But if you ride like a sack of poo, they ask if you've been training with PK as a mild ribbing.

    As for Iberian horses.. we have a LOT. It is very easy to transport from Spain to Germany. You get the good, the bad and the ugly in all breeds. But generally, Iberian horses are built well enough to cope with shoddy riding rather than a 17hh WB.

    Iberians are not my favourite breed (Sorry Petey! Not you of course!) because I find them to lack finesse and elegancy. But, for a rider looking out to start dressage, they make perfect horses. Of course training has everything to do with it. I have seen some car crashes of Andys. They are better built, as a breed standard, to be able to do these things.
         

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