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Piaffe & Passage Training

This is a discussion on Piaffe & Passage Training within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category

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        09-19-2013, 08:34 PM
      #51
    Super Moderator
    My understanding was that PT was saying that the similarity between the two training styles, dressage and Charro, was that they both utilized driving the horse forward with a whip or stick toward a restraining bit. She said:

    "a horse restrained from forward movement and force being applied to make them dance in place ."

    I believe she is saying that she sees the same fundamental force/restraint used in both training styles, just a matter of degree.
    jaydee and PunksTank like this.
         
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        09-19-2013, 09:01 PM
      #52
    Trained
    "Corporal" spent the last day of Battle (2008, 145th Gettysburg) performing a lovely Passage for over an hour straight. I never had to use a whip on my Arabian to get him to collect. He learned how to do it by repetition and athletic practice.
    Maybe when you are taking short cuts you need to whip your horse. I think it just unnerves them.
    Why not make it fun for them, too?
    Btw, our commander had NOTHING for us to do, and he was used to running all over the field delivering messages.
         
        09-19-2013, 10:21 PM
      #53
    Trained
    I think the use of whip/cane is misunderstood here. The horse it not being 'whacked', 'hit' etc. it is tapping, akin to tapping someone in the shoulder. If you are using force in this, then yes, there are issues. As Anebel said, this is not to train the piaffe, but on a horse with the idea established and the strength and balance to execute the movement, to bring greater refinement.
    Posted via Mobile Device
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        09-20-2013, 10:35 AM
      #54
    Super Moderator
    Unfortunately this idea is catching on and some people are trying to use it as a first step in training a horse to Piaffe. I found a video on youtube where someone who has a series of videos showing how she's doing this as per instruction from someone else and then later one of her riding a different horse and trying to train it Piaffe from the saddle - though this horse has no clue about collection or how to respond correctly to pressure on its mouth so the result is a train wreck. This is an adult not a young person.
    Tapping a horse on its leg will get it to lift that leg - any horse can learn to do that. Horses can naturally lift their legs - they do it all the time to swat flies off their bellies so don't need training to do it. Since you can't tap a horse on the leg when you're riding it as a cue or as encouragement then to me it serves no purpose at all as a training tool and no replacement for hard work - and a horse that has some natural elevation which is why the warmbloods are the horse of choice for that level of dressage - or the Iberian breeds in Haute ecole
    To add - First impressions are the things that stay most in a humans mind. Its why if you fail to make a good first impression on an interview you will rarely get a second chance. If someone gets a bad taste from any sport or from people involved in that sport the first time they have any experience of it they frequently never go back to it
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        09-20-2013, 05:59 PM
      #55
    Trained
    Lol and that is why I can school half steps on the 6 year old Andy in my display photo without a whip spurs or contact. I MUST be kicking and spurring him into the bit JUST LIKE the Charros!!

    Oh well. Dressage once again is evil and cruel for using artificial aids.

    Think about it in your "high knees" exercise for sprint warm ups how you try to hit your hands held out in front of you- the same is the use of the bamboo stick. Actually, much akin to clicker training, rewarding the horse for touching the target... Hmm Oh well best not think too hard about that because I must remain in my EVIL cloak of dressage.

    I'm off to go beat my horses. They obviously like it because they whinny at me when they see me... And if the crops are off then I can go beat them in the field where no one can watch and then post on a forum about it. Or better yet a blog or epona.tv
    And once again I stand by my belief that a low neck is not cruel. Contrary to popular media outlets and their followers. Regardless of how many dressage riders you've seen and how many GP horses you've petted...

    Done with being off topic and if anyone needs me I'll be "In the saddle."
         
        09-20-2013, 07:55 PM
      #56
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
    why it's being discussed to run FEI level competitions with no spectators....
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Can you direct me to where these discussions are taking place within the FEI?
    Events rely on spectators. I can't see sponsors of events being pleased to hear that spectators would not be allowed to attend. Sponsorship would drop or dry up, and many volunteers would not sign up if they heard they could not spectate, either.
         
        09-20-2013, 08:06 PM
      #57
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by updownrider    
    Can you direct me to where these discussions are taking place within the FEI?
    Events rely on spectators. I can't see sponsors of events being pleased to hear that spectators would not be allowed to attend. Sponsorship would drop or dry up, and many volunteers would not sign up if they heard they could not spectate, either.
    IDRC and I'm sure there's at least one article on eurodressage.
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        09-20-2013, 08:20 PM
      #58
    Super Moderator
    Happy horse flogging!
    Gallop On and PunksTank like this.
         
        09-20-2013, 08:30 PM
      #59
    Weanling
    I hope they don't close the rated shows to spectators. I understand the desire to, but doing so would absolutely kill the sport. Marketing is a huge aspect of making a sport popular. FEI shows are important because they draw people in and help create an interest in the sport. I'd be disappointed if the industry let people's ignorance drive them to make spectators unwelcome.
         
        09-20-2013, 08:40 PM
      #60
    Weanling
    I wonder who gets to tell Aachen that they can have spectators anymore and everyone should cancel their reservations to Normandy if they were going to spectate at the World Equestrian Games.
         

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