Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=?
 
 

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Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=?

This is a discussion on Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Classical dressage training vs. hunt seat
  • Moving from forward seat to dressage seat

 
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    08-23-2010, 06:37 PM
  #1
Weanling
Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=?

I think that you can take a dressage rider and put them in the hunter ring and they will kick butt, but if you take a hunter rider and put them in the dressage ring then they won't do so well

I am not trying to put anyone down, it's just that dressage riders have learned a lot more communication with the horse and they would obviously need a bit a practice.


Now this is what I'm thinking: If you take a classical dressage rider(very few out there) and ask them to do modern dressage movements, it would be a piece of cake for them. In modern dressage these days, I see a lot of short cuts, contraptions, heavy hands, horses heavy on the forehand, etc. They can do piaffe(much better than modern riders), passage, pirouettes, extension just as well or better. They communicate better, use their seat more, and right with light hands. I am not saying that modern dressage riders are bad, they just ride differently(I ride dressage myself). But many riders these days just don't care about the horse, they care about winning and they care about their own ego. The sell their horse for a better horse, like they are riding machines.

*I am not putting labels on all riders.

Here are classical pictures:


And modern dressage pictures


There are lots of good modern riders:


And what makes a classical rider different from a modern rider?
     
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    08-23-2010, 06:46 PM
  #2
Green Broke
Contentious!!! Hopefully this thread doesn't head south....

As someone who has been criticized for spending too long on the basics with horses I pull off the track (OTTB's) I consider myself more of a classically trained rider. I firmly believe in achieving excellence at each gait and movement before progressing too far through training just to satisfy someone elses ideas of what a horse should be doing and how quickly. If that means it takes 6-12 months to develop balanced gaits with impulsion, rhythym and flexion, so be it.

I do however believe that people who have the desire to learn will seek out knowledge and put it into practice, regardless of what dicipline they associate themselves with.
     
    08-23-2010, 06:51 PM
  #3
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahver    
Contentious!!! Hopefully this thread doesn't head south....
Yes, I've kept that in mind
     
    08-23-2010, 07:48 PM
  #4
Trained
I've been to more than a few schooling shows (eventing) where hunt seat riders are showing in the combined shows just to get some more experience under their belts. Without fail, they have problems simply sitting tall and deep in the saddle. The forward seat muscle memory looks like it's very difficult to overcome. I would say there's definitely an advantage to coming from a dressage background versus the other way around.
     
    08-23-2010, 07:57 PM
  #5
Weanling
Dressage is harder to achieve. It takes much longer to become a dressage rider than a hunt seat rider. You have to have utmost balance and be aware of every part of your body. You have to be relaxed and yet work. The seat is very hard to achieve- being able to ride with proper contact of your reins and body which have to work in harmony to communicate harmoniously with the horse.

A hunt seat rider(I rode hunter before I started dressage), does not have that contact and harmony the same as a dressage rider. Their seat has no communication with the horse because they aren't even upright over their legs. Not having that upright, grounded balance does not allow them to use their seat to bring their all their body parts and different aids all together so their communication is chopped up(this isn't bad, it's just different). They depend much more on the reins, and the legs are only for getting the horse to move off pressure.
     
    08-23-2010, 07:59 PM
  #6
Foal
Quote:
I firmly believe in achieving excellence at each gait and movement before progressing too far through training just to satisfy someone elses ideas of what a horse should be doing and how quickly. If that means it takes 6-12 months to develop balanced gaits with impulsion, rhythym and flexion, so be it.

I agree with this as well. A friend of mine said that if she ever bought a horse that she had to train for dressage the first thing she would do would be 30 days of longing with side reins to teach the horse to bend before she even got in the sadde. She would go longer if the horse had little muscle tone and needed to be worked up to using side reins. She then would perfect every gait before moving on. I really respect people who take the time to train like that! :)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck    
The forward seat muscle memory looks like it's very difficult to overcome. I would say there's definitely an advantage to coming from a dressage background versus the other way around.

Amen to that! I can speak for myself as a previous hunter. I was taking more dressage based lessons for a while before my trainer moved and I had to switch to a hunt trainer. I developed the WORST seat ever! I went to visit my old trainer and I couldn't ride the horse I had leased for two years prior to going hunt seat! Now, trying to get back into dressage, it has been at least two years and my forward seat is still terrible! Once you get into that mode, its so difficult to overcome!
     
    08-23-2010, 08:02 PM
  #7
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoyPuck    
The forward seat muscle memory looks like it's very difficult to overcome
I've been there and yes, it is. It is much easier to ride in a hunt seat, it's just much easier to balance.
     
    08-23-2010, 08:28 PM
  #8
Weanling
Here's some pics:

vs

And:



Circuit of aids:
     
    08-23-2010, 09:13 PM
  #9
Trained
I like to think of myself as one of those riders that rides classically in the modern dressage ring. And I think it needs not to be referred to as classical, but instead just simply as correct.
It is possible to train like this, there are trainers out there. I find Robert Dover to be one of the most influential correct or "classical" teachers out there today and have been lucky enough to ride for him and am coached by people who ride under him as well. He does not allow whips, would prefer if everyone wore nub spurs and really encourages the horse towards brilliance without harmful methods. If you ever get the chance to see him ride, or even just teach, take it.
This is why I prefer the words correct and incorrect versus modern and classical. There is no time period for good and bad riding. There was a lot of bad riding in the years where we say the "classical" era was. It is very easy to look back and think that when Dr. Klimke was around, everyone rode like him and that was the norm. But in reality he was winning at international dressage, he was the best, therefore the "average" riding was far far below his ability, or else he would have been an average rider. There was plenty of front to back riding, kick-and-pull collection and horses incorrectly performing movements with riders in poor positions. There always has been, or else why would books about riding correct dressage have been written, even in what we say is the "classical" era?
     
    08-23-2010, 09:15 PM
  #10
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
I like to think of myself as one of those riders that rides classically in the modern dressage ring. And I think it needs not to be referred to as classical, but instead just simply as correct.
I wanted to say that but I just didn't know how to put it. I completely agree.
     

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