Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=? - Page 4
 
 

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Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=?

This is a discussion on Put a dressage rider in the hunter ring, put a classical rider in the modern ring=? within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • "Lee tubman" dressage horse
  • Classical riding hunter class

 
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    08-24-2010, 05:27 PM
  #31
Weanling
Ok ,scratch the title of my thread as I did not explain what I meant. I wanted this to be modern vs. classical dressage.

To explain quickly, I did not mean take a dressage rider and just put them on a hunter horse and send them into the ring. What I meant is take a dressage rider, and if they were to change disciplines and start hunter/jumping, it would be easier than to have a hunter rider start dressage. That would mean they take lessons and ride hunter horses and already having that aware, centrally balanced dressage seat would give them an advantage in the hunter ring.
     
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    08-24-2010, 05:33 PM
  #32
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPhorsemanship    
What I meant is take a dressage rider, and if they were to change disciplines and start hunter/jumping, it would be easier than to have a hunter rider start dressage.
I'd be very curious to hear the opinions (personal experience) on that one. I believe we have several riders here on forum who switched from dressage to hunter/jumpers and vs.
     
    08-24-2010, 05:36 PM
  #33
Weanling
I switched from hunter/jumper to dressage and if you look at the first few posts on this thread there are other people's opinions.
     
    08-24-2010, 05:52 PM
  #34
Showing
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPhorsemanship    
I switched from hunter/jumper to dressage and if you look at the first few posts on this thread there are other people's opinions.
My trainer did pretty much everything in her life (including western riding as well). She ended up with dressage, and from what I understood it wasn't that hard to switch. If you are a very good rider with good balance, hands, legs, it should take that much effort and time, because you already have good basic foundation.
     
    08-24-2010, 05:56 PM
  #35
Weanling
I will agree with that as I did not have that much experience.
     
    08-24-2010, 06:03 PM
  #36
Green Broke
I switched from hunter to dressage and it was hard for me, I find it easier to switch back to hunter anytime I want to jump, but then I get back into m dressage saddle and I do a dressage seat, so personally I have done it so much I just don't think about it anymore. But I think I found it easiest to switch back to hunter from dressage (rather then goin g from hunter to drssage) was because I did hunter a while before I switched back, so it wasnt something compeletly new lkike when I switched from hunter to dressage.

But I do also think its something personal too, like it was harder for me because of my muscle memory and Im not dancer or something, so I didnt have very good control and feel of where each piece of my body was. I think those things effect it a lot too. I don't think one is better then the other, Dressage is better for dressage, Hunter is better for Hunter, Warmbloods *tend* to be better for dressae, when QH's are better for western. It doesnt mean a Warmblood is better, but it DOES mean a warmblood *in most cases* would be better for ME, because I want to excell at dressage, so according to that stereotype, a warmblood is better for me. Hunters is better for some people because they want to do hunters, dressage is better for some because they want to do dressage.
     
    08-24-2010, 06:20 PM
  #37
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
Cool! Who was your horse's sire?

BTW, still doesn't make the OP's original point valid. I'd just like to know about the horse.

Here he is with Dressage rider Lee Tubman in the warm up to the Tournament of Champions show.



And here he is in hunter over fences.



I can easily see a horse OR rider competing at the top levels of both disciplines with the right horse if both the horse and rider were trained dressage first.. and the proof is in both my boy and his sire.
     
    08-24-2010, 08:35 PM
  #38
Banned
Gorgeous horse, Spyder, and lovely photos of him competing in both disciplines.

There's no doubt that a talented horse with the right conformaton, attitude and training can be successful in both disciplines. The original title of the thread, and subsquent posts by the OP, weren't really addressing the horse, but the rider.

And my take, and my continued posting in this thread, is that the OP thinks that a hunter rider is just an undereducated dressage rider, or a rider that hasn't had their eyes opened. This opinion is further solidified by the OP's statement
Quote:
...already having that aware, centrally balanced dressage seat would give them an advantage in the hunter ring
No, it's not an advantage. It's a lack of understanding of the fundamental goals of the discipline. And it's incorrect. A hunter rider is not a dressage rider that hasn't learned to sit up straight yet. Hunter riders ride "forward" for a reason. Different discipline, different goals, both valid *but* different. Cross discipline education is wonderful, and can always give you new tools and perspectives to apply to your primary discipline *IF* you approach the new discipline with an open mind. I do not suspect the OP of this.

Finally, if I rode down the center line of my test in two point or with my body inclined ahead of the vertical; and rode the rest of my test on a hunter style contact I would expect to be marked down on position and submission in the collective marks.

If I rode into the hunter ring in the OP's "centrally balanced dressage seat" I would not be competing on a level playing field with the other, conventionally forward seat ridden, hunters. Even if I was on a beautifully moving horse, I would not expect to pin as high as the horses that could maintain consistent gait *WITHOUT* active contact and seat aids. And in a hunter seat eq class, even if I managed to nail 8 spots and two changes from a consistent pace from that seat, I would expect to pin lower than the forward seat riders....because the name of the class is "Hunter Seat Equitation." Not "highly evolved equitation for riders who have realized that dressage is the one true grail."

Spyder, I hope you realize that the sarcasm is not directed at you, because I hope you know that I respect you and value your opinion. I know you to be a true horseperson with a *great* cross functional perspective. I also hope that your remember from previous threads that I have great respect for the principles of classical riding.

This thread has rubbed me the wrong way from the first post, and for the people who are willing and capable of hearing it, I have made my point several times over.

Please feel free to continue with the discipline chauvinism; I'll try to restrain myself from posting and spoiling the fun going forward. (Forward? Get it? It's a pun.)
     
    08-24-2010, 09:44 PM
  #39
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by maura    
Gorgeous horse, Spyder, and lovely photos of him competing in both disciplines.

There's no doubt that a talented horse with the right conformaton, attitude and training can be successful in both disciplines. The original title of the thread, and subsquent posts by the OP, weren't really addressing the horse, but the rider.


Spyder, I hope you realize that the sarcasm is not directed at you, because I hope you know that I respect you and value your opinion. I know you to be a true horseperson with a *great* cross functional perspective. I also hope that your remember from previous threads that I have great respect for the principles of classical riding.

This thread has rubbed me the wrong way from the first post, and for the people who are willing and capable of hearing it, I have made my point several times over.

Please feel free to continue with the discipline chauvinism; I'll try to restrain myself from posting and spoiling the fun going forward. (Forward? Get it? It's a pun.)
Thanks. I understand where you are coming from and agree with the points you made. To me, lay a good foundation (via dressage) on either the horse or rider and with the right training a rider or horse can slip between many disciplines. The funny thing is that my boy's sire is known only as a hunter but clearly that is not the foundation as the dressage picture was taken 4 years before the hunter one.

My old GP horse actually did western games and western pleasure ( not at any national level) but does prove the point that a rider ( it was I that rode in both disciplines) can switch but again my feeling is that if the basics in dressage is stamped there first, a rider can switch their riding style to encompass both fairly easily.

I would not expect that rider to do 2 point in dressage nor a flat deep seat in hunter but follow the norm for whatever discipline that they are competing in. This would require training in both disciplines so only in the vaguest sense is the OP right and maybe this is what the OP really meant.

I do completely disagree with the premise that one rider from the other discipline would kick ass the riders in the discipline they switch to. I simply believe they would be just as competitive as any other rider...no better or worse.
     
    08-24-2010, 09:58 PM
  #40
Weanling
Okay, I probably shouldn't be jumping in here, but I will. For my own background, I grew up riding western and hunt seat, and western has a very upright, deep seat when you show western horsemanship and western riding classes in the show ring. Since moving up to an A/AA level USEF trainer, and learning to use the forward seat properly, personally, I find the forward seat difficult to transition too. My trainer is constantly having to get me out of my more "dressage" seat, not using my seat to influence my horse constantly and driving with my seat more than a hunter rider should. Also, I have from learned that riding with a well educated trainer, that hunters know how to do many lower level dressage movements - more in a training level frame, but really concentrating on the proper bend, lateral movements, etc. These are all things I learned as an all-around rider on the QH circuit. So for me, I think it would have been an easier switch to go to dressage than it would have been to go to the Hunters.
     

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