Question about salute
 
 

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Question about salute

This is a discussion on Question about salute within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category

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        12-13-2013, 01:18 PM
      #1
    Weanling
    Question about salute

    Hi everyone!

    I have a question for those of you experienced with tests and judges. This weekend, during a first level test, a combination of nerves and I-have-no-idea made me halt and salute without moving my hand far away from the reins (I halted, bowed/kind of flicked my wrist, and trotted on). The judge gave me a 4 for this and cited that my hand was not removed from the reins to salute. This is not a directive for scoring the movement; was it appropriate to dock so many points for the incorrect salute?! For reference, here is a picture of my entry on the exact test. The entry felt at least like a 6 and I feel as if the photo supports that.

    People had issues with this judge all weekend, but unfortunately she's so old in the sport (earned her USDF gold in 1985, I believe) that I'm afraid to challenge her. I also struggled with the fact that even though I was riding Training and 1st level tests, she judged as if I was riding PSG... I don't feel that she judged based on the directives.

    Should I pursue my issue? Should I let this go and move on? Any help and advice would be appreciated!
    Attached Images
    File Type: jpg haltsalute.jpg (53.0 KB, 64 views)
         
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        12-13-2013, 02:46 PM
      #2
    Banned
    It's one judge and one test of many in your life. What do you think you'll accomplish by challenging her decisions?

    By your own admission your salute WAS incorrect. The judge is under no obligation to give you a pass if you do it wrong. Welcome to real life.
    ~*~anebel~*~ and DimSum like this.
         
        12-13-2013, 02:59 PM
      #3
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    Welcome to real life.
    There is no need to be snarky. And the question was about whether a movement can be marked down for something that is not listed in the directive, not on whether I was living real life. Thanks.
         
        12-13-2013, 03:05 PM
      #4
    Green Broke
    I was taught to do the head bow plus take your hand (in my case, the left one) off the rein and lower it to your thigh - that was just kind of a standard thing even though the test didn't say it specifically. I think you just need to chalk this one up to experience and use it to your advantage in the next test.

    The problem (if it could be defined as one) is that all judging has an element of subjectivity in it and it's pretty hard to get away from that (even with multiple judges). Plus, in my experience, judges are people and some are more lenient than others so it can come as a bit of a shock to us when we encounter a more stringent judge.

    P.S. Nice square halt.
    Tigo and existentialpony like this.
         
        12-13-2013, 03:16 PM
      #5
    Foal
    If I remember correctly - a few years ago at a show near where I live a lady was doing an FEI level freestyle and in her final halt she turned and saluted the audience, not the judge at C. It was apparently done as a defiance towards the judge who was a total piece of work. I didn't speak with her directly, but that was what I heard. Anyways, I believe she was eliminated. No where in the directives on the freestyle does it say that you must face and salute the judge, just that you are judged on the entrance and exit halt - it's one of those unspoken "rules" I guess?

    I agree that it would be best to learn from this "mistake". I would think that so long as your hand came off the rein and you bowed your head it should be okay. I've seen some very extravagant salutes. Me, I just drop my hand towards my thigh/knee and give a slight head bow. It's probably not worth it to pursue the issue. I would let it drop and chalk to up to a "mistake" or "bad judging", whichever you want and take what you can from it. I would suggest in the future to fully extend your hand down and towards your knee, even if it's really fast because you are nervous :)

    ETA on Chevaux's point: Speaking of lenient judges - last year I had one that didn't stop me when I trotted through my halt rein-back, she didn't even notice! The judge at B went running down to the judge at C to tell her and they were kind enough to let me redo it. There was all kinds of confusion at the end of that test haha. However, a less lenient judge may have been inclined to give me a 0 because I technically did not do the movement; that would have been something I would have chalked up to experience. After all, I didn't do the movement (I do realize that this is different from your situation, as you did do the movement but perhaps not "up to snuff" as per that judge).
         
        12-13-2013, 03:26 PM
      #6
    Trained
    The judge was not a certified judge (that I can find). Unless a judge holds an "S" card or higher (into FEI) they do not have a lot of judging experience so are not going to be giving the USDF or FEI "best" judging. And if they aren't certified at all, then it's luck of the draw if they think your horse is a pretty color.

    You are correct, that saluting improperly is not really to be penalized, but that is the risk you run when going to low level (or non-dressage) shows with un-certified judges. Getting a better opinion means spending more $$$ and going to higher level shows with better judges. You can't expect to have really really great dressage judges when you aren't even at a dressage show!!!
         
        12-13-2013, 03:29 PM
      #7
    Weanling
    Thanks for the advice everyone! I do think it will be one of those "mistakes" I kick myself about for a while... by the way Tigo, that story sounds pretty outrageous! You know, a clinician I recently rode with ranted for about an hour over lunch about how much he despises shows/judging for those very reasons, especially in situations where there is only one judge.

    Anabel, I don't know much about the ratings, but the show was quite expensive and the judge is a USEF "S" Dressage Judge and "R" Dressage Sport Horse Breed Judge, according to her CV.
    Tigo likes this.
         
        12-13-2013, 03:41 PM
      #8
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by existentialpony    
    Thanks for the advice everyone! I do think it will be one of those "mistakes" I kick myself about for a while... by the way Tigo, that story sounds pretty outrageous! You know, a clinician I recently rode with ranted for about an hour over lunch about how much he despises shows/judging for those very reasons, especially in situations where there is only one judge.

    Anabel, I don't know much about the ratings, but the show was quite expensive and the judge is a USEF "S" Dressage Judge and "R" Dressage Sport Horse Breed Judge, according to her CV.
    Ok, my bad. Usually dressage shows will know who not to hire and who is a good "S" judge to have. Breed shows are not so picky in my experience... Definitely do your research before you ride! If they don't get hired a lot, there's a reason. And now you know who not to ride for!! I have a few on my list who I think are not worth the $$ to ride for.

    That story sounds like one around here where the rider didn't halt in her first salute (walked through it) and instead of eliminating her in front of the whole crowd the judge allowed her to finish her freestyle. There was some arguing afterwards lol. But there is a rule about halting in the freestyle.
         
        12-13-2013, 03:47 PM
      #9
    Green Broke
    Unfortunately, the nature of horse shows is that we pay someone to give their opinion about us.
    With that in mind, (as it sounds like you already have) I would just let it go. There will be plenty more shows, and I'm sure you learned your saluting lesson xD
         
        12-13-2013, 03:49 PM
      #10
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
    That story sounds like one around here where the rider didn't halt in her first salute (walked through it) and instead of eliminating her in front of the whole crowd the judge allowed her to finish her freestyle. There was some arguing afterwards lol. But there is a rule about halting in the freestyle.
    Oh that's probably the one I was that I was thinking about. My memory isn't the best . I knew it had something to do with halts and arguing lol...
         

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