Roundness H E L P
 
 

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Roundness H E L P

This is a discussion on Roundness H E L P within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Roundness horse
  • When to ask horse for roundness

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  • 1 Post By Chiilaa
  • 3 Post By MyBoyPuck
  • 3 Post By DuffyDuck
  • 1 Post By ~*~anebel~*~

 
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    12-14-2011, 08:57 PM
  #1
Foal
Roundness H E L P

Okay, hi.

So I'm riding a massive, 17.1.5h Hanoverian gelding, and I'm 5 foot 3, and only 94 pounds. See the problem?

The horse is awesome, and is pretty responsive most of the time. I ride with draw reins, and a whip, but no matter how much I shorten my draw reins, I can't get him round.

Getting him round at a walk and canter, but as soon as I do a posting trot, he won't stay round.

My riding coach hates having the same lesson twice, and when she's mad, she yells, which scares me.

What do I do?!?
     
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    12-14-2011, 09:07 PM
  #2
Trained
Some of the dressage gurus will be sure to be along soon, no doubt. I have to say though, that I think you should ditch the draw reins and ditch the trainer. The draw reins because they aren't working, and the trainer because you are scared of her.
Beling likes this.
     
    12-14-2011, 09:23 PM
  #3
Trained
Ditch the draw reins and the trainer. Draw reins do not produce collection. Case in point. Get down on your hands and knees like a table. Hollow your back and put your head to your chest. You can do it no problem, right? Is your back round? No. Now put yourself back in neutral position. This time, tuck your butt under. What happens? Your back comes up as a result and your head comes down a little in response to your back coming up. Manipulating the head alone does NOTHING. You achieve collection by engaging the power of the hind end and harnessing it with the front end. The head and neck are an after-product. I'm sure the more experienced dressage guru's will ring in, but definitely find a more qualified instructor.
Scoutrider, Beling and DingDong like this.
     
    12-14-2011, 09:34 PM
  #4
Showing
Sometimes when you post, you yank the horse's mouth up and down from the posting. Get it round at the sitting trot by using more seat and leg and playing with the bit to soften his mouth until he relaxes.

The more leg and driving seat that you use, the rounder he'll get. You need to figure out how to achieve that without using draw reins..

Draw reins are a TOOL to show your horse where he needs to be... you shouldn't use them ALL the time. Horses need to carry themselves properly without being forced to. You can help them, but your horse needs to get his hind end working.

Also.. if you are SCARED of your trainer.. I would find another one.
     
    12-15-2011, 03:42 AM
  #5
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePoniesForever    
Okay, hi.

So I'm riding a massive, 17.1.5h Hanoverian gelding, and I'm 5 foot 3, and only 94 pounds. See the problem?

The horse is awesome, and is pretty responsive most of the time. I ride with draw reins, and a whip, but no matter how much I shorten my draw reins, I can't get him round.

Getting him round at a walk and canter, but as soon as I do a posting trot, he won't stay round.

My riding coach hates having the same lesson twice, and when she's mad, she yells, which scares me.

What do I do?!?

Firstly, get shot of the draw reins. Shortening them doesn't bring a horse's head round, it only pisses them off!! You'll only get the effect of either pulling on its mouth, or putting its head between its knees.

Secondly, coming 'round' or on the bit comes from a mix of things, not just the bit.
You need to ensure your horse is warmed up correctly. When I warm up in walk and trot, I never go whole school, I have single loop serpentines, three loop serpentines, 20 m circles, change the rein through half the school, change out of the corner, 10m circles in walk. Anything, use your imagination.

If you struggle to get your horse to listen to your aids, and he doesn't work from behind, transitions. However, correct transitions. When you ask for walk to trot, or trot to walk/ halt it has to be on the dot, not teeper down in to it. When you think walk, he walk's. You have to prepare the horse with half halts on the outside rein, let him know something new is coming. You get him ready with your legs and seat then BAM, do it. Don't pull back on him. As you do more and practise more, it'll become easier.

Also position. When the horse is working correctly from behind, he'll start to swing in his back, and naturally drop his head, they do it in the field, free lunging, anything. Its comfy for them. You want to have him in an outline though... so, you need quiet quiet hands. I was always told my outside rein is my 'working' rein, and my inside rein is my 'direction' rein, direction as in left right, im combo with leg and seat, and also head position. If your horse resists, don't pull and fight, give and take. Your trainer should be able to explain this clearly to you. Keep sending the horse forwards, though.

Lower your hand position if you need to, and don't expect the horse to come up and neat and tidy straight away, it is very exhausting for a horse, roundess and suppleness does not mean he has to be up in your face. When he comes in to an outline, reward with a 'give' of the rein, I'm not saying throw it away, its a small action which makes all the difference in the world.

As for your trainer. I'm scared of mine too. Last night I nearly bailed out the side door when my 18.1hh decided bucking, mini rears and spinning was great fun, but I stayed on because I really didn't want to see the consequence from my trainer if I fell off.
IF you don't understand something, you should have no qualms in approaching your trainer and asking for advice. Generally, if a trainer is shouting at you, its because they know you can do it, and they want to push you harder because you may be having a bad day, and its reflecting in your riding.

However, this can also have a negative result in case you tense up, the horse will feel it and depending on the animal he may take care of you, or he may take the mickey and not work at all.

Speak to your trainer, explain your problems and work through them, that's you best bet.

Good luck!
~*~anebel~*~, Kayty and DingDong like this.
     
    12-15-2011, 08:50 AM
  #6
Showing
Yes :) lots of good luck!! I neglected to say that in my most.. it was slightly more intense than I remember.

Yay Duffy :) I always learn something from you haha
     
    12-15-2011, 08:58 AM
  #7
Showing
Chiilaa said it all: forget about draw reins and change the trainer.
     
    12-15-2011, 09:01 AM
  #8
Green Broke
No problems Sky, we're always learning! :)
     
    12-15-2011, 11:25 AM
  #9
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuffyDuck    
Firstly, get shot of the draw reins. Shortening them doesn't bring a horse's head round, it only pisses them off!! You'll only get the effect of either pulling on its mouth, or putting its head between its knees.

Secondly, coming 'round' or on the bit comes from a mix of things, not just the bit.
You need to ensure your horse is warmed up correctly. When I warm up in walk and trot, I never go whole school, I have single loop serpentines, three loop serpentines, 20 m circles, change the rein through half the school, change out of the corner, 10m circles in walk. Anything, use your imagination.

If you struggle to get your horse to listen to your aids, and he doesn't work from behind, transitions. However, correct transitions. When you ask for walk to trot, or trot to walk/ halt it has to be on the dot, not teeper down in to it. When you think walk, he walk's. You have to prepare the horse with half halts on the outside rein, let him know something new is coming. You get him ready with your legs and seat then BAM, do it. Don't pull back on him. As you do more and practise more, it'll become easier.

Also position. When the horse is working correctly from behind, he'll start to swing in his back, and naturally drop his head, they do it in the field, free lunging, anything. Its comfy for them. You want to have him in an outline though... so, you need quiet quiet hands. I was always told my outside rein is my 'working' rein, and my inside rein is my 'direction' rein, direction as in left right, im combo with leg and seat, and also head position. If your horse resists, don't pull and fight, give and take. Your trainer should be able to explain this clearly to you. Keep sending the horse forwards, though.

Lower your hand position if you need to, and don't expect the horse to come up and neat and tidy straight away, it is very exhausting for a horse, roundess and suppleness does not mean he has to be up in your face. When he comes in to an outline, reward with a 'give' of the rein, I'm not saying throw it away, its a small action which makes all the difference in the world.

As for your trainer. I'm scared of mine too. Last night I nearly bailed out the side door when my 18.1hh decided bucking, mini rears and spinning was great fun, but I stayed on because I really didn't want to see the consequence from my trainer if I fell off.
IF you don't understand something, you should have no qualms in approaching your trainer and asking for advice. Generally, if a trainer is shouting at you, its because they know you can do it, and they want to push you harder because you may be having a bad day, and its reflecting in your riding.

However, this can also have a negative result in case you tense up, the horse will feel it and depending on the animal he may take care of you, or he may take the mickey and not work at all.

Speak to your trainer, explain your problems and work through them, that's you best bet.

Good luck!
This whole post, especially the bolded part.
Your coach isn't there to hold your hand and coddle you. Yes, they are there to be supportive at times, but you aren't paying money for them to let you ride around in lala land and tell you how wonderful you are.

You have to learn that these people are trying to help you, not break you down and yes, some of them yell if you don't progress. Don't take it as "I'm scared she will yell at me if I don't progress", instead think "How can I change my riding that my coach will be able to progress with her teaching and I will be able to learn new things". If you are having issues understanding what she wants, stop and ask. If you just keep riding around and not understanding it's frustrating for the both of you!! If you don't ask, she doesn't know that you don't understand!

Good luck!
DuffyDuck likes this.
     
    12-20-2011, 08:28 AM
  #10
Weanling
In addition to everyone's great advice- you say you can get him round at the walk and canter, but he won't keep it at the posting trot. What happens in a sitting trot?

Of course he holds it better at the walk and canter. You're sitting deep, and driving from his hind end forward more than you probably realize.

When Deja was first learning collection, I had the same problem, until a trainer pointed out, that he holds frame better at a sitting trot. So, I did a lot of sitting trots, until he was really driving well, and therefore had a bendy, relaxed frame. Then it became easy for him, so I was able to take it back up to the posting trot.

Try sitting the trot for a little while. See if you can get a good hind end drive by sitting the trot, push with your seat, hold steady pressure with your leg, even rein pressure, and drive forward until he releases the head hold on the rein, and softens his jaw from relaxing his topline alltogether. When he releases, you release, praise him, and give him a little rest, then try it again.

The same thing can be achieved posting, but you can feel him a lot better sitting.
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