I have been half-leasing a QH the past three months and riding her in my lessons. She is not trained in dressage. She's a great school horse because she doesn't spook easily, she tries to please, and she needs strong cues to get moving.
At the end of this month she's leaving the farm because her owner is taking her away.
The past few lessons and practice sessions have all been about putting her on the bit. She's not trained to do it. So essentially I had to teach her. Over and over again, over and over again I practice with her.
I still can't ride a complete 20 m circle with her remaining on the bit. It's true everytime I ride she is getting the concept faster. There is tiny progress.
I read on this forum that the best way to learn dressage is to ride an old retired dressage horse. A horse that's already trained and knows everything, a horse who can teach me, not me teach it. So, I get doubtful and a little upset that I am riding an untrained horse.
Now that she's leaving, I am relieved and hoping to get a more experienced horse. The riding school has profiles of their school horses on the website. Only one of them is described as a dressage horse. But it also states that he is suitable "for more advanced riders".
My instructor at first suggested him and told me I could watch him in other lessons to see what kind of horse he is. She teaches other students on him and she said he likes to "go", and that if I let him, he would break into a canter every chance he gets.
So I thought, okay I'll watch him. The next day, though, my instructor announced that the school will get another QH to replace the one who's leaving, and my instructor said this "nice school horse" will be fine for me.
So once again I am feeling frustrated because in my imagination, I see myself eternally riding a horse who doesn't know anything about being on the bit and me teaching him. Not exactly what I had in mind when I began my lessons!
What do you think? Am I being impatient and unrealistic? Am I being foolish and looking for a shortcut?
I think you should be careful with this horse that's "experienced" because he could just be a hot head and not suitable for someone that is still learning dressage.
Are there other options in the area? I think you should find a level headed trained in dressage horse that is going to take care of you.
I think your trainer doesn't understand your goals but is wanting to keep you safe and match up your abilities with this "nice school horse"
So I would look around, even if you have to go away from your current school if there is a chance to lease something that can really teach you and help develop your skills.
The level of a schoolmaster that can teach you something, depends on what level you are riding presently. If you've been struggling to get the last horse on the bit on a 20m circle for some time, I'd say that for now, you really just need to find a horse that knows how to work on the bit and can do some basic lateral work so you can have a feel of it. Getting a more advanced schoolmaster, say one that has flying changes, more advanced laterals and developed a reasonable level of collection, will be fairly un necessary at this time.
The level of a schoolmaster that can teach you something, depends on what level you are riding presently. If you've been struggling to get the last horse on the bit on a 20m circle for some time, I'd say that for now, you really just need to find a horse that knows how to work on the bit and can do some basic lateral work so you can have a feel of it. Getting a more advanced schoolmaster, say one that has flying changes, more advanced laterals and developed a reasonable level of collection, will be fairly un necessary at this time.
That makes sense. That's what I want.
Sky, I also agree with you. I think I need to find more barns/horses I can learn from.
I've only been learning dressage for those 3 months. Gosh it feels like 3 years.
Thanks for the advice guys. I will email my instructor and talk to her about it, now that my head is clearer.
If you've only been learning dressage for 3 months ( assuming once a week lessons) it's no surprise you can't get the horse 'on the bit' for a full circle.
Has your instructor mentioned whether you're encouraging the horse to carry themselves properly and accept the contact or are you working on getting the nose down?
What level are you at elsewhere in your riding?
I personally would go for the quieter horses. I actually enjoyed learning as I taught prin although there were some frustrating times when it all comes together its amazing! Posted via Mobile Device
Is your half-lease horse still used for lessons? Are those the beginner lessons? If the horse is used for beginner lessons all the time you won't progress much, because what you do today will be undone tomorrow by someone not knowing what he/she is doing. I also agree with Kayty that riding high level horse is very beneficial only if you know all cues yourself. :wink:
Since you lease and not own you are somewhat flexible in what you can chose to ride (given they have different level horses in barn). Personally I'd go with 1st or 2nd level horse that is NOT in beginner lessons.
Yes Kitten_Val, the horse IS used for beginners. That's why I'm feeling so frustrated. Everytime I ride we make pathetic progress because the rest of the time she's being ridden by others.
I believe it's time to think of another barn..this barn only has beginner horses. The trainers have their own show horses not used in lessons. Thanks Kitten.
Prinella, I am taking two lessons a week. I think my instructor is teaching me right.
I'd look into a different barn personally. In my experience very few trainers lease out own show horses, but in my area several dressage barns offer such "barn" leases as well as lessons on schoolmasters, although I assume you have to prove you can ride passed beginner level ).
I think beginner horses are saints and absolutely great to use for learning basics (that's what I use for my jumping lessons - just a solid BTDT mount that is nearly not as flexible and responsive as my own mares, BUT will teach me the basics without me worrying about doing something wrong), but not the great option to progress when you have everything in place.
The way I see it, first, you learn to ride along with the horse. With that in mind, the best thing you can do is ride a lot of horses, different types, until you are fairly comfortable with all of them. You learn a deep, independent seat while you develop the balance and muscles you need. You don't try to change the horse so much as go along with him while you jump, trail ride, ride patterns, gymkhana. You get the idea!
The next stage is the influencing of the horse, getting him on the bit and so forth, attention to his rhythm, his balance, his attentiveness. For this, I believe riding ONE horse is best, a horse who will not be ridden by a lot of different kinds of people. How else can you learn whether or not he is learning? It's at this point when a schoolmaster might be helpful, to learn the feel of what is correct. But just learning to "push the right buttons" has never been helpful in my experience. I think every horse develops his own "buttons."
Riding can be such an expensive sport! But maybe it's time you try to find a horse you can lease, or perhaps share, if you can't get one of your own.
Well friends, I emailed my instructor and she replied that I need to continue with the present horse because there are no horses who magically become on the bit while riding. She said my horse is schooled enough (surprise here) and I need to practice more. She emphasized the importance of what I'm learning and how necessary it is for the development of future skills.
I have to admit I was taken back by her firmness. But it pleased me too. I know already that success requires persistent effort. I respect her opinion a lot and so I will continue with what I'm doing.
Thanks all for your advice.
DD Posted via Mobile Device
At some point you have to decide to either trust the judgement of your current instructor or find another instructor. And certainly no harm can come to you from staying with the safe and staid school horse type, but I'm a little sceptical about your instructor's motivation. She may want to keep a capable, reliable twice a week lesson student whether she has the right horse for you to teach you on or not.
Here's my reasoning behind this - an appropriate horse for you to ride at this stage of your riding is a horse that can be put on the bit when you're 80% correct in your aids; not a horse that's difficult to put together or unfamiliar with the concept. You want a horse that will reward YOU for asking correctly by going correctly; that's the best way to learn. A horse that's evasive or crammed into a false frame will be miserable to learn on; an uneducated one, nearly impossible. If your instructor can get on this school horse, and ride him on the aids after a brief warm up and keep him moving actively and correctly, then the horse is probably appropriate choice for you. If she can also explain *how* she's doing it, and that how includes skills you're working on in your lessons, then it's a good choice.
If the horse doesn't really know how to go on the aids, or isn't fit enough, or ridden correctly often enough to go on the aids and stay there consistently for a better rider, then your instructor is sacrificing your development as a rider for the sake of a steady, paying student.
If that's the case, I wouldn't necessarily break the relationship with the instructor, but I would become a lot more assertive about finding a horse to lease that you can really progress on.
And to be fair, the type of horse you're seeking is a scarce and highly desirable commodity.
Good luck to you in your riding journey, and please post back on your progress!
This was my thought as well. It sounds like you really respect your instructor, and by all means, you should. But you said yourself this is a barn for beginners and it sounds like you are ready to move up. Don't let your relationship with your instructor keep you from progressing. You'll regret it.
I know people who have been riding schoolmaster after schoolmaster for years and still couldn't put a horse on the bit if their life depended on it!! I've seen a lady who went out an bought a horse competing at international levels and shw couldn't put it on the bit with draw reins even.
I agree with your instructor, any horse that is used to a bit can be put on one. It's not easy, not in the slightest, even on a trained horse. Keep working on pushing the horse to your hands, riding from back to front and from inside leg to outside rein. It comes in fleeting moments which eventually turn into seconds and minutes and then hours. You can learn to feel on any horse.
I know people who have been riding schoolmaster after schoolmaster for years and still couldn't put a horse on the bit if their life depended on it!! I've seen a lady who went out an bought a horse competing at international levels and shw couldn't put it on the bit with draw reins even.
I agree with your instructor, any horse that is used to a bit can be put on one. It's not easy, not in the slightest, even on a trained horse. Keep working on pushing the horse to your hands, riding from back to front and from inside leg to outside rein. It comes in fleeting moments which eventually turn into seconds and minutes and then hours. You can learn to feel on any horse.
I had a lesson last week and I got Zulu on the bit and the miracle was that not only did he come to the bit, soft to the inside, but he held himslef in self carriage, just floating along around a perfect circle , for about three rotations. I was smiling from ear to ear.
I realized that I had been trying to hard to force and keep him there, but when I lowered my inside hind the second he softened, Zulu gave back to me this wonderful full minute long of trotting in self carriage!
I can "put' him on the bit, but having him willing to stay there, now that was an awesome feeling, and made me realize I have a lot to learn.
oh Anebel, you sound just like my instructor. You are right, it's been fleeting moments for weeks but today I felt like finally it's turning into seconds at a time. Thank you very much for your encouragement. Posted via Mobile Device
A little different situation for me because I own the horse and don't lease or take lessons on a lesson horse, but I started eventing about 9-ish or so months ago and neither my horse or myself knew how to do things like move forward, accept the bridle, etc. I had to learn how to teach my horse, and I honestly wouldn't have it any other way. I rode my trainer's (young and learning) horse a few times to better get the feel, but worked super hard to get it down with my horse. Not only is that great experience for me, but now I know HOW to do it and HOW to teach it to other horses... and I currently am!
And how do you know that what you are training, is right?
I ask, because I've taught people that thought their horse was going great guns, when in fact they'd just taught it to drop it's head and stay somewhat between the aids without using it's body. Makes for a comfortable ride, but in no means correct.
Is this question directed towards me? If so, are you refering to how do I know the training I am doing with my horse is right, or are you refering to the training I am doing with another horse?
Good on you Tiny!!! It really is a lovely feeling when they will travel in self carriage and a light, elastic contact. Every half halt comes through and is effective, you can feel the hind leg come under and the croup lower.
By the way, you've got an inside hind? Thats impressive :P
Yep, directed at you. Just the training in general - if you have taught yourself, do you film your riding so you can go back and critique yourself and make sure that the horse is on the right track, or do you go soley by feel? Going by feel is great, but I wonder if you haven't ridden a more experienced horse before or have someone there to tell you when it's correct - how do you KNOW that what you are doing, is on the right track?
Just going off my own experience, I know that having regular lessons for myself keeps me in the right direction. I don't think that I am anywhere near experienced enough to assume that my work is 100% correct at all times without some guidance. In fact, there are not many around the world who could claim that, if any. I've ridden a lot of horses, a lot of schoolmasters etc. and I do think that I have a good feel on a horse. But I'm still not confident that I can train a horse entirely on my own, as a competition prospect, with no coaching guidance.
I did not, solely, teach my horse or myself these things.... it was all done with assistance from my trainer. I own my horse, but at the time lessons were frequent (usually multiple times a week). I did ride without the presence of the trainer, and on those days practiced what we were working on. In addition to that, yes, I also had videos taken so I could see the progress, etc. I also go by feel. I have videos from prior to training and following.
I would not advise to anyone to attempt to train a horse these things solely on their own, by reading a book or something they have read on the internet, etc. You NEED a trainer there to teach you HOW to do it and to tell you the moments WHEN you get it throughout various times during that particular ride.
In regards to the original poster though, I could see where it could become a little frusterating by taking weekly lessons on a horse that needs to be taught something like this. I was able to do it with my horse (and it's still not perfect) and I have access to him 24/7. It does take time and some horses learn faster than others.
Quote: I hope I find a horse that can teach me instead of me teaching it
I think that the best learning comes when you are teaching.
You can't be afraid of making mistakes. An instructor will keep you from going too far astray.
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