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TB's in the Dressage Ring

This is a discussion on TB's in the Dressage Ring within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Clyde/tb dressage

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    12-12-2012, 11:18 AM
  #41
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
Horses don't work like water. You can't mix hot and cold and get warm.
Coldblood is a breed type
Hot blood is a breed type
Warmblood is a breed type
Stock is a breed type
Gaited is a breed type
Etc..
Crossing any of these breed types with another makes a crossbred horse. A TB clyde is NOT a WB, it is a crossbreed.
I beg to differ.....breed types and temperment types are two different things.....so you're saying all those fancy dressage horses that have a TB for a dam and an Oldenburg sire are what? Cross breeds? Can they be registered? And if so, under what registry?
I have worked at a very reputable WB stud where they bred and trained Holsteiners......the put the Holsteiner sire over TB mares to refine the off spring and decrease the 'heaviness' of the horses they produced.....all these horses were registered as Holstieners......and branded as such also.....
     
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    12-12-2012, 11:24 AM
  #42
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
I beg to differ.....breed types and temperment types are two different things.....so you're saying all those fancy dressage horses that have a TB for a dam and an Oldenburg sire are what? Cross breeds? Can they be registered? And if so, under what registry?
I have worked at a very reputable WB stud where they bred and trained Holsteiners......the put the Holsteiner sire over TB mares to refine the off spring and decrease the 'heaviness' of the horses they produced.....all these horses were registered as Holstieners......and branded as such also.....
If the TB has been inspected and approved by the WB breed association, then it can have WB foals for that breed association. You can't pick out a random TB from a field and breed it to a Hano stallion and call the offspring Hanoverian. Both sire and dam must be approved and registered with the society you wish to register the progeny with. If the TB dam is not approved, then the horse cannot be registered and is a crossbreed. Also, please refrain from getting snarky re the "all those fancy dressage horses" comments.

A stock horse is not a temperament type. There is no such thing as a "temperament type" I know arabs who could withstand a nuclear war without spooking and quarter horses who are afraid of their shadows. Breed stereotypes wrt personality and temperament are inaccurate.
     
    12-12-2012, 11:33 AM
  #43
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~*~anebel~*~    
If the TB has been inspected and approved by the WB breed association, then it can have WB foals for that breed association. You can't pick out a random TB from a field and breed it to a Hano stallion and call the offspring Hanoverian. Both sire and dam must be approved and registered with the society you wish to register the progeny with. If the TB dam is not approved, then the horse cannot be registered and is a crossbreed. Also, please refrain from getting snarky re the "all those fancy dressage horses" comments.

A stock horse is not a temperament type. There is no such thing as a "temperament type" I know arabs who could withstand a nuclear war without spooking and quarter horses who are afraid of their shadows. Breed stereotypes wrt personality and temperament are inaccurate.
My comment wasn't meant to be snarky, let's face it they are pretty fancy....but I think a lot of horse people believe that certain horse breeds, particularly those bred for the dressage arena are one breed, not a cross, which essentially it is.....am I wrong in saying that? And if I am wrong, why would I be wrong?
The stud I worked at, the TB mares were all approved and registered, as with the studs obviously.
When I refer to temperment type....in regards to hot, warm, cold I am not saying a stock horse is a temperment type, but certain breeds do fall into these categories and there are some animals within a breed type that fall outside the boundaries of what they have been categorized in.....
     
    12-12-2012, 11:37 AM
  #44
Banned
Warmblood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anebel, I stand corrected on this according to wiki...mixing of hot and cold to create 'warm'.........
     
    12-12-2012, 12:06 PM
  #45
Yearling
Sorry 'bout stealing the thread just something I've been wondering about for a spell.
     
    12-12-2012, 12:42 PM
  #46
Weanling
Not going to lie, my breed encyclopaedias when I was young referred to coldblooded, hotblooded and warmblooded breeds (these being like 90's at the youngest kind of textbooks). I think it's fallen out of use, but it certainly used to be a description of breed types.

Checking my "Parragon Encyclopedia of Horses and Ponies", it tells me that Arabs, Anglo-Arabs, TBs and Akhal Tekes are hotblooded, all draft horses including light drafts like Friesians to be coldblooded, and everything else under warmblooded. That includes Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Swedish and Swiss Warmbloods, Hanos, Oldenburgs, Trakehners, Andalusians, Lippizzaners, and then everything from QHs to Morgans to Trotters to Hackneys and includes most ponies excepting Haflingers. My "Dent's Horse Sense" and "Usborne Dictionary of Horses and Ponies" are all in agreement on this one, too.

So it would seem there are the BREEDS Warmbloods, and the TYPE warmblooded. Now this ones a pure guess, but since Warmbloods are relatively new in terms of breeds - any chance the name might have come from that old-fashioned terminology? As originally being coldxhot and then the breed seeing established? Pure guess there though...
EmilyJoy and Muppetgirl like this.
     
    12-12-2012, 12:53 PM
  #47
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by minstrel    
Not going to lie, my breed encyclopaedias when I was young referred to coldblooded, hotblooded and warmblooded breeds (these being like 90's at the youngest kind of textbooks). I think it's fallen out of use, but it certainly used to be a description of breed types.

Checking my "Parragon Encyclopedia of Horses and Ponies", it tells me that Arabs, Anglo-Arabs, TBs and Akhal Tekes are hotblooded, all draft horses including light drafts like Friesians to be coldblooded, and everything else under warmblooded. That includes Belgian, Dutch, Danish, Swedish and Swiss Warmbloods, Hanos, Oldenburgs, Trakehners, Andalusians, Lippizzaners, and then everything from QHs to Morgans to Trotters to Hackneys and includes most ponies excepting Haflingers. My "Dent's Horse Sense" and "Usborne Dictionary of Horses and Ponies" are all in agreement on this one, too.

So it would seem there are the BREEDS Warmbloods, and the TYPE warmblooded. Now this ones a pure guess, but since Warmbloods are relatively new in terms of breeds - any chance the name might have come from that old-fashioned terminology? As originally being coldxhot and then the breed seeing established? Pure guess there though...
Exactly how I was taught too......
EmilyJoy likes this.
     
    12-12-2012, 08:50 PM
  #48
Foal
I'm an oldster, and as a kid I too learned that draft breeds were cold bloods, Thoroughbreds and Arabians were hot and that breeds like Morgans, Saddlebreds, etc. were warm bloods. I think that the European Warmblood breeds were not well known in the States then.

Just to add to the discussion though, while there are general differences in the physique and talents of American Thoroughbreds and Warmbloods in the modern sense, many Warmbloods have a high percentage of Thoroughbred blood. You can't even tell because the animals that are admitted to the various stud books become that breed. Any given Hanoverian or Holsteiner could have a majority of Thoroughbred ancestors.
     
    12-16-2012, 12:11 PM
  #49
Trained
Well today Mum committed to take on a horse [we weren't even properly looking, she'd just commented she wanted something to ride while her pony is growing up... and I came across him while browsing for tack - he fell into our laps so to speak]. He is INCREDIBLE.

16.2hh 9yo gelding. Brown with a star, snip, and one sock.
We are leasing him for now, in 2 years time his owner will decide if she wants him back or if she's going to sell him to us... this is a favour to her as she adores him but is a beginner so can't handle his foibles. We only have need of him for two years, while Mum's pony matures, and in that time we can get the buck out of him and give him an education while she continues to grow and improve... then she can decide if she wants him back. If not I'm thinking I might buy him off Mum because frankly I am in love.
He has the most AMAZING conformation, uphill built with a beautiful hind end, springy hind legs, a fantastic shoulder, perfect length of back, nice bone, good pasterns, nice neck set & shape, beautiful head...
THE most incredible knee and hock action. Naturally moves uphill with an engaged hindquarter. Wants to self-carry [nervous but when he relaxes he honest to god looks like a trained dressage horse]. BIG foreleg flick in the trot while still maintaining hind end engagement, will lend himself very well to collection as well as superb extension. Very very green so this is all natural tendency.
Feels amazing to ride. Second best horse I have ever ridden... second only to an FEI dressage horse I have been lucky enough to ride [who, by the way, is training solid GP and when I rode him was looking to compete at said level], and Ben's not second by much!

...bucks like a demon. This is a combination of fear and learned evasion, nothing a few soaked saddle pads won't fix. And the fact he hasn't been consistently ridden in something like 6 months doesn't help.

Guess his breed?
core likes this.
     
    12-16-2012, 06:23 PM
  #50
Weanling
Is he, perchance......AN OTTB????

He sounds fabulous. Lucky you!

BTW, what's with the soaked saddle pads? That is something I've never heard of--do tell
     

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