Tightness of nosebands - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 39 Old 08-15-2009, 06:48 AM
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I use the one finger rule as well. Don't see the point in strapping my horse's jaw shut.
When we used to use a flash noseband we kept it loose. One or two fingers could easily fit in between.

I give myself very good advice, But I very seldom follow it
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post #12 of 39 Old 08-15-2009, 07:33 AM
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I know a few people who have horses with evasive issue, opening mouth after the tiniest pressure, and as a quick fix they strap the jaw shut. It's utterly ridiculous.
I use the two finger or no nose band rules. :P

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post #13 of 39 Old 08-15-2009, 08:55 AM
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This is from the March 09 Practicle Horseman.

I really wanted to share this becuase I feel it is important for us all to learn from great riders, such as Jim Wofford.

This is an article he wrote:


Is It Art? Or Violence?
Tips from the FEI rule book on why coercive training equipment doesn't work.

My therapist tells me that if I share my issues with you, I will feel better. So - here goes:

Can anybody around here ride in anything other than a flash noseband that has ben pulled so tight it leaves a depression in the horse's nosewhen the noseband is released?

Do you have ANY idea how much I hate tight nosebands? Doesn't thatmake you doubt yourself and your trianing methods just a little?

It should.

I learned a long time ago that art ends where violence begins. I do not see how we can be proud of our art as riders when the way our nosebands are adjusted amounts to daily mini-torture sessions for our horses who we purport to love and care for so much.

When your horse opens his mouth or croses his jaw, do you think, "Uh-oh, I'm going to lose dressage points this weekend, I'd better clamp his mouth shut"? OR do you recognize that your horse is exhibiting a sign of tesntion?

This means his training must continue to emphasize basic, calming work. If he is obviously nervous at the bottom levels of the training scale, you are not going to have much luck with his collected trot.

For those of you who have not been taking notes after your dressage clnics, the Training Scale goes - Rhythm, Looseness, Contact, Impulsion, Straightness, Collection.

Bcause I was born in a different century, I was raised on Gen. Decarpentry's advice - "Calm, Forward. Strait." I still prefer it because it emphasizes calmness before anything else. It is difficult to teach a horse anything when he is tense, and if you do teach him anything, cahnces are it will be the wrong thing.

Whichever way you think of it, you have to realize that your horse is not yet calm when he shows resistance in his mouth. If he is not yet calm, then any further demands on him will result in more tension and flawed results.

It is as simple as that. If you want flawed results, go ahead and ask for colection before your horse is relaxed. This is a pretty certain way to produce a horse who needs hismouth strapped shut.

A tight noseband is a vain attempt to disguise the fact that your horse is not ready for the things you are asking him to do.

Where was I berfore I started this rant? Oh yeah, classical equitation. I reread the "Object and General Princibles of Dressage" in the INternational Equestrain Federation dressage rule book the other day, and was pleased with how meaningful it is, and how clear.

For example, Article 401 of the rule book says, "By virtue of a lively impulsion and suplenes ofthe joints, free from the paralyzing effects of resistance, the horse obeys willingly and without hesitation and responds to the various aids calmly and with precision, displaying a natural and harmonious balance both physically and mentally."

Think about that for a second: When horses stiffen and resist, their musculature becomes paralyzed for the duration of that resistance. If your horse is tense in his topline while jumping, he wil be slow with his knees and hang his legs. If you are an eventer, or want to become one, then you have to realize that dressage permeates everything we do with horses.

Article 401 aditionally states, "The object of dressage is the development of the horse into a happy athlete through harmonious education. As a result, it makes the horse calm, suple, loose, and flexible, but also confident, attentive and keen, thus achieving perfect understanding with his rider."

I give the FEI a lot of unsolicited constructive criticism in this column, most of it well deserved and desperately neeed. However, I would be the first to admit that this is a lovely description of what we are supposed to be looking for in the training of our horses.

Finally, the rule book states that a hors should be allowed to "quietly chew the bit." You often find this expression in the source documents of dressage, and it is always spoken of approvingly as a trait to be developed and encouraged.

There is a very good reson for encouraging this trait in your horse: When he chews quietly on the bit, his mouth is soft and mobile. When his mouth is soft and mobile, it is a good bet that his jaw is relaxed. When his jaw is relaxed, his topline is through and his haunches are active. When your horse exhibits these traits, you are wel on your way to producing the "happy athlete" mentioned in the rule book.

If all this is true, then tel me how in the world your horse is going ot chew softly on anything when your flash is so tight that he can't move his jaw at all?

I laugh to myself when I walk past a competator getting ready to go into the dressage arena at an event and see her groom frantically stuffing sugar cubes into the side of the horse's mouth. At some tim einthe psat that rider has been told that a trained horse should show signs of foam on the sides of his mouth, so she is going to produce that foam by whatever means.

She doesn't evennotice that her poor creature has his mouth so firmly clamped shut that he cannot chew anything. If US Dressage Team coach Bengt Ljungquist were alive, he would be spinning in his grave.

If that is your training practice, why not just go ahead and Super Glue your horses's teeth together.....that'll keep him from gaping his mouth, and it will fix that nasty teeth grinding at the same time. Just kidding.....really. Blame it on my therapist - she told me I need to rant more.

Anyway, the best way to get a good score in your dressage test is to give the judge what she wants. Judges are trained to judge according to the rule book, and the rule book says your horse should be free from the paralyzing effect of resistance.

Maybe if you concentrate more on correct training, your scores will go up. It will take a little while longer, but you will get a thrll out of your horse's improved performance. That thrill when you realize your horse is starting to understand is what is what sperarates competitors from horseman.

When we get the feeling that our horse is improving, the color of the ribbon pales in significance.

Competitions are atest of our progress as horsemen, they are not an end in themselves.

However, I don't want you to think that I live and train only in a world of theory. Riding and training horses in the real world is a complicated business, and things can get confusing sometimes. Was it Emerson who said that a sign of maturity is the ability to believe two mutually exclusive things at the same time?

If that is so, then we need to let our thinking about horses mature. What do I mean? Let me give you an example : I firmly believe that we must train our horses according to classical principles. This means long-term systematic, progressive training that never disturbs the tranquility of the horse. At the same time, I also believ that you can't have good hands if you don't have enough bit. See what I mean about opposed ideas? Yet both are true, and we need to apply both of them.

The process of training horses in the real world finds us suspended between these two oposed concepts, and we have to continually balance them. If I emphasize classical principles to th exclusion of all else, I may get into a situation wher I endanger my horse and my student, because if your horse is lacking in training, you will need some kind of gadget bit, which wil then be, short-term, enough bit.

At the same time, every time I use a gadget bit or overtighten a noseband, training comes to a stop. My horse will not truly improve until I do away with gadgets and domination and return to quiet, consistent, patient training.

It can be an enormous help to your training once you understand and accept that your horse is an incredibly sensitive creature.

I often wonder why people think they have to kick and pull a horse who can fel a fly land on his neck. Intsead of worrying about your dressage score, I want you to concentrate on teaching your horse to calmly respond to invisible aids.

Reiner Klimke, the legendary multiple gold medal winer said "My horses are not my slaves, they are my friends." Teach your horse to respond calmly and correctly, and he will be your friend forever.

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post #14 of 39 Old 08-15-2009, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Great article. :)
Thanks for your input everyone. :)
A woman in my town has a very strong connection with Katherine Haddad, in fact I believe she owns Maximus & sponsors him & Katherine. Anyway, Katherine was giving a clinic and there was the most spectacular horse there that I have seen in awhile. The rider was beautiful and elegant and seemed to stay out of his way, they just seemed to dance. His willingness and expression was far beyond most horses and I sat there drooling while I watched. Each movement scored 10's (according to Katherine). Then they started working on 3 tempi's acrossed the diagonals and went around for what seemed an eternity. I could tell the horse was getting tired. But on they went. And because he was getting much to fatigued to do the work that was asked of him he was getting tense and nervous and started to resist the bits. They tightened the noseband 3 holes. :( Poor horse. It would have been nice to see if they honored the fact that he was so willing, in a calm relaxed fashion.

In riding, a horse's energy is like a river- guided by the banks but not stopped by them.
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post #15 of 39 Old 08-15-2009, 06:28 PM
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that was a good article. Like I said before I use a flash but it is not tight. My horse can still suck/chew on her bit and move her jaw around. The idea of calmness in that article is what my horse and I are really working on, being calm and attentive. doing lots of groundwork has helped this a lot. I like to see her sucking on her bit because to me that is a sign of being comfortable.

Boxer Diligent, loyal, strong
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post #16 of 39 Old 08-16-2009, 05:49 PM
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havent read the posts. but i like the quote that says "no noseband should ever be so tight so that a horse cannot take a lump of sugar"
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post #17 of 39 Old 08-16-2009, 05:51 PM
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My Cavesson is so loose, I have it on the very first hole. And I refuse to use a flash again.

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post #18 of 39 Old 08-16-2009, 07:43 PM
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Same here, MIE... I may as well not have one on Denny, but I like the look. I really like the look of figure-8 nosebands, and love to use mine on Denny, but it is also kept as loose as possible.

The lovely images above provided by CVLC Photography cvlphotography.com
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post #19 of 39 Old 08-16-2009, 07:46 PM
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I totally understand what you are saying JDI. I don't need a breastplate, but I use one because I think it finishes the "look". My old coach used to get so irritated with me because I would use my breast plate for no reason - but meh..whatever. Isn't hurting him in the least.

I do like figure 8's as well, they are sharp looking.

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post #20 of 39 Old 08-16-2009, 07:49 PM
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I use one finger rule too. As for those people at your barn, some people you just can't reason with and talk to. One day they'll get thrown off their horse when their horse has had enough and they'll wonder why. Horses will only take so much and one day they'll have it and the person will get thrown off, break their hip, or worse.

John 14:6 - Jesus said unto him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."
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