What gaits carry/don't carry impulsion. - Page 3
 
 

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What gaits carry/don't carry impulsion.

This is a discussion on What gaits carry/don't carry impulsion. within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Waldermer Sueng dressage
  • Impulsion

 
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    01-30-2011, 11:28 AM
  #21
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by slc    
I wrote that.

.
Yes I know along with 3,000 volumes of "core dumping" as you put it on COTH.

Just so you know anything past 2 sentences that is irrelevant to the topic I don't read.
     
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    01-30-2011, 11:47 AM
  #22
Green Broke
Every now and then I try to read articles on Quantum Physics as I like to extend my realm of understanding and broaden my horizons wherever possible.

That feeling of being completely out of my league but certain that I am going to learn something of benefit is the same feeling I get when I read your dressage posts Spyder. Could you add your opinion to this topic as to whether the walk has impulsion or not?

If nothing else it will save me from picking up NewScientist so early on a Sunday morning.
     
    01-30-2011, 11:49 AM
  #23
Trained
Lol Spyder.

~~~

The walk must have impulsion! To have the energy from behind, creates impulsion.

How can there NOT be impulsion? To have your horse engaged, tracking up, opened up and moving under themselves, OFF of their forehand and working from their back end = Implusion.

The Impulsion is not as magnificant as the impulsion you would find at the trot or canter, but it is there.

WHEN DONE CORRECTLY!
     
    01-30-2011, 11:56 AM
  #24
Green Broke
SLC sorry but I disagree, you can have impulsion inthe walk. You can have collection in the walk and contained energy in the walk therefore you have impulsion. It is the impulsion in the walk that gives you the nice square halt. Heck you can have impulsion in the halt for that matter. Where you have energy contained between the hand and the leg you have impulsion.

I agree with you that impulsion and going forwards are not the same thing but impulsion and suspension are not equal!

If impulsion = suspension then why on earth are we not all riding arabs? They have masses of suspension in the trot naturally but I can garentee you that there is no impulsion, or certainly not in the arabs shown inhand.
     
    01-30-2011, 12:11 PM
  #25
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahver    
Every now and then I try to read articles on Quantum Physics as I like to extend my realm of understanding and broaden my horizons wherever possible.

That feeling of being completely out of my league but certain that I am going to learn something of benefit is the same feeling I get when I read your dressage posts Spyder. Could you add your opinion to this topic as to whether the walk has impulsion or not?

If nothing else it will save me from picking up NewScientist so early on a Sunday morning.
LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta1981    
Ha! Chiila I have to say that mental image is pretty funny. =)

Weird I don't have to login to wiki. Here is what is there:

There are competing definitions of impulsion. The 2007 USDF rule book defines it as "...Thrust. Releasing of the energy stored by engagement. The energy is transmitted through a back that is free from negative tension and is manifested in the horse's elastic, whole-body movement.[1] The classical dressage trainer Nuno Oliveira described impulsion as, "...a mental and physical state of the horse to obey the rider's demands as fast as possible, to move forward, and to maintain his forward impulsion without support from the aids..." and ""Impulsion means to maintain the energy within the cadence."[2] Another definition is that "[a] horse is said to have impulsion when the energy created by the hind legs is being transmitted into the gait and into every aspect of the forward movement. A horse can be said to be working with impulsion when it pushes off energetically from the ground and swings its feet well forward."[3] The USEF states, "Impulsion is the term used to describe the transmission of an eager and energetic, yet controlled propulsive energy generated from the hindquarters into the athletic movement of the horse. Its ultimate expression can be shown only through the horseís soft and swinging back to be guided by a gentle contact with the riderís hand."[4]
In competitive dressage circles, impulsion is defined by the German Training Scale, which states that impulsion is only possible in gaits having a moment of suspension, such as the trot and canter, but not the walk.[3] This is the current position of the USDF. Others differ, however. Oliveira described impulsion as necessary at all paces: "If your horse goes from walk to trot without changing the head and neck position, the walk had good impulsion."[2] Outside the world of competitive dressage, impulsion is considered necessary at all gaits, encouraged in gaited horses,[5] and in horses used for western riding.[6] Impulsion at the walk is encouraged and judged in many lower level dressage and combined driving competitions that do not necessarily follow the current trends in international judging.[7]

And this is e book they reference [3]: The Principles of Riding, The Official Instruction Handbook of the German National Equestrian Federation.

Again, I don't see how walking is not impulsion. Just reposting for Chiila who could not see this.

Shasta is correct.

HOWEVER I quote from Waldemar Seung.

Impulsion originates as the thrust and and suppleness of the hindquarters acquired in the course of systematic work so that the leg pushs off from the ground with a springy step. THIS ALSO INVOLVES THE ELASTIC SWING BEFORE THE BACKWARD EXTENSION IS COMPLETE.

His book is the one I learned from ( obviously worked for me), he was a master in his day.

If you take his words to be true (and I do) then any gait that can be enhanced must have at least some small bit of impulsion to begin with. The walk has the least but it is there.
     
    01-30-2011, 12:19 PM
  #26
slc
Weanling
Seunig.

Most of the guys who wrote those books complained a great deal about how they were translated to English. There is a difference, even to Seunig, between 'forward' and 'impulsion' (he would have used the word 'Schwung' for impulsion).

A great many books don't concern themselves with the complete definition, and there's a different understanding of the term for lower level vs higher level.

I have no concern if anyone agrees or not. That's not a problem for me. Doesn't worry me at all - the fact remains, judges are, and have been for a long time, instructed to not use the word 'impulsion' in connection with the walk.

It's something to look into and think about, some will be interested in doing so, some will not.

Can the walk have impulsion? Only if 'impulsion' means only 'a desire and eagerness to go forward'.

It means, or at least used to mean, before it was generalized, a lot more than that.
     
    01-30-2011, 12:24 PM
  #27
Trained
To say that there you cannot get impulsion at the walk, means to disagree with the Masters of the sport. The Spanish Riding School Masters, Reiner Klimke, George Morris, and the list goes on...
     
    01-30-2011, 12:26 PM
  #28
Green Broke
Impulsion is not 'a desire to go forwards' Impulsion is the energy contained between hand and leg.

If you can't get energy contained between your hand and leg in the walk then you are doing something very very wrong!

I can ride to medium level in dressage (the level at which one can use a double), I can create impulsion in the walk and in the halt. TO have energy between your hand and leg, to have the horses hocks under it and its weight back on them is impulsion. The horse can then go forwards, backwards, sideways, up or stop but I have the contained energy to do whatever the hell I please
     
    01-30-2011, 12:28 PM
  #29
slc
Weanling
Thanks Spyder but I will not be as rude to you, as you are to me.

In response to the last post, why is it then that you hear so much advice to not collect the walk too early on, to not collect it even at the point when the trot and canter are being collected, and to be very careful when, later on, you do start working collection in walk?

No, I did not say suspension and impulsion were the same.

I said that 2 gaits of the 3 have suspension, trot and canter. Impulsion increases the suspension of the gait because it makes use of the energy to 'wind the spring' of the hind quarters.

People appear to be disagreeing adamantly with me, without having read what I wrote, please do carry on, LOL!
     
    01-30-2011, 12:31 PM
  #30
Trained
Because Collection is the LAST GOAL in the Pyramid.



Impulsion - comes before collection!

My Dressage Coach, always tells me - If you can't do it at the walk, you have no business doing it at the trot. If you cannot do it at the trot, you have no business doing it at the Canter.

Get impulsion at the walk first, before you expect to get it at the trot.
     

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