What gaits carry/don't carry impulsion. - Page 5
 
 

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What gaits carry/don't carry impulsion.

This is a discussion on What gaits carry/don't carry impulsion. within the Dressage forums, part of the English Riding category
  • Collected walk not true collection no impulsion

 
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    01-30-2011, 01:59 PM
  #41
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by slc    
The difference in what I'm saying vs what others are saying, is that you're using the term 'impulsion' to mean 'forwardness'. I see a difference between these 2, others don't.
You are just not getting it are you.

A horse can be forward without having impulsion!!! My baby pony is very forward but he has bugger all impulsion because at this point in time he does not know how and I want him to go forward before I ask anything more of him

Impulsion and forwards are not the same thing at all.

You still havent answered my question though. If impulsion is shown through suspension then why don't dressage riders all ride arabs? They have the most suspension naturaly of all horses!
     
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    01-30-2011, 02:14 PM
  #42
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by faye    
You are just not getting it are you.

You still haven't answered my question though. If impulsion is shown through suspension then why don't dressage riders all ride arabs? They have the most suspension naturally of all horses!

I find that google doesn't work well.

Quote:
You don't want overtrack in a collected walk, though.
I don't think MIE really read what you wrote but that is understandable.

Collected gaits don't result in overtracking and the horse's hind legs will fall behind the footfalls of the front legs because the directional arc of the hind leg is diverted from forward thrust to support.
     
    01-30-2011, 02:25 PM
  #43
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder    
Collected gaits don't result in overtracking and the horse's hind legs will fall behind the footfalls of the front legs because the directional arc of the hind leg is diverted from forward thrust to support.
Was just about to post this - thanks Spyder!

A collected walk is only a breath away from piaffe (as my coach says) and so were the horse to be overtracking in the walk, how is he carrying enough behind to spring into piaffe? Ext. Walk needs overtrack, and taking that to piaffe is very difficult.

As far as carrying impulsion in the walk - in my collected walk I can transition into an extended trot, canter, or I can simply halt. All the while I have a quiet, ready energy and without this - I would not have a collected horse! This is waht I feel (through riding and experience - not books) truly defines "impulsion". That I can call upon the horse to do things and he has the energy and readiness available for it.
     
    01-30-2011, 02:28 PM
  #44
Trained
You're right Spyder, I have picked up the habit of not reading long and lengthy book report posts.....my appologies.
     
    01-30-2011, 02:30 PM
  #45
Green Broke
I personaly wasnt talking about collected walk, but a good walk that has impulsion. Obvioulsy in a collected walk you will have a lot of impulsion but in a good medium walk you should have impulsion!

Sorry that isnt coming out right but I can't seem to get my thoughts out of my head any better! Ah well I know what I'm trying to say anyway even if no one else can understand it!

Spyder i'm not sure what the google reference is about?
     
    01-30-2011, 02:36 PM
  #46
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by faye    
I personaly wasnt talking about collected walk, but a good walk that has impulsion. Obvioulsy in a collected walk you will have a lot of impulsion but in a good medium walk you should have impulsion!

Spyder i'm not sure what the google reference is about?
You know when you google something and you get a large volume of relatively unrelated answers which still contain keywords but are otherwise fairly irrelevant to what you want?? Like that.

In the ultimate collection it is assumed that the impulsion of the horse is completely solid, because it lies under collection on the scale. In talking about the ultimate walk with absolute impulsion it is easier to assume everything is in the collected gaits.
While a medium walk can stil contain impulsion, a medium walk can also exist without impulsion. Collected walk cannot exist without impulsion - this is why for debate sake we usually refer to things which are mutually inclusive ie it can be assumed one comes before the other.

Hope I explained that OK?
     
    01-30-2011, 02:38 PM
  #47
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by faye    
Spyder i'm not sure what the google reference is about?
Just that in answering a question asked, google searches can prove fruitless.
     
    01-31-2011, 10:46 AM
  #48
Green Broke
I have given this some thought and wanted to ask some questions for clarification. Mind you, my pure dressage riding is mediocre at best. The highest I ever competed was as a phase of eventing and it was pre-novice back home in Australia. Equivilent to whatever the level is before CIC* here in the States, so you can see, fairly basic dressage. I had lessons from an FEI instructor when I could afford him and attended a couple of dressage clinics, the names of who I will not mention as I was most likely the least talented of their students and they would probably be mortified by my association

However, still wanting to learn....

Quote:
Originally Posted by slc    
In the walk, there is always one leg on the ground, meaning, that whenever one leg leaves the ground, another leg is then on the ground. There is no 'leap' or 'bounce' in the walk.
.
Is it necessary to have a 'leap' or a 'bounce' to have impulsion? My understanding of impulsion is that it is a force, or an impetus if you like. Force can only be obtained from the gaits of a horse by the effect of the hooves connecting with the ground and departing with said 'impetus'. Therefore, it shouldn't matter if there is a suspension phase or not as the suspension phase is actually a result in part of the force at which the departing stride left the ground.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slc    
No, I did not say suspension and impulsion were the same.

I said that 2 gaits of the 3 have suspension, trot and canter. Impulsion increases the suspension of the gait because it makes use of the energy to 'wind the spring' of the hind quarters.
I understand that you didn't mean to say that suspension and impulsion were the same however you did make a connection between there being no suspension at the walk and therefore no impulsion. Inferred conclusions are just as powerful as stated ones. Whilst impulsion may increase the suspension of the gait surely that is related to the force at which the departing stride is enacted?

One of the things that I did learn under instruction is that the walk is the easiest gait to ruin and the hardest gait to perfect, something that seems to be highlighted in this discussion.

Spyder, thoughts?
     
    01-31-2011, 09:42 PM
  #49
Showing
Just as an example of the walk needing impulsion and collection: walk pirouettes.
     
    01-31-2011, 10:12 PM
  #50
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahver    
Spyder, thoughts?
You came to very good conclusions...all on your own.

Well done.
     

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