hey jimmy, yes that is a good idea - that's what I thought you meant. And that accident you mention is just the sort of thing I am talking about- the more you can do before the cart goes behind the cart the better, hence my wheel or pallet, I can just worry about me and the horse getting it right without worrying about expensive equipment, or heads being split open. That's why I do all of the other stuff first. Glad you saw my joke, and yes I looked at and replied to you in private message, but I didnt think it sent to you, so will do it again. And weefoal, hi, that plastic tubing idea is I expect very similar to what I do, I use the wheel for a bit of weight, just to get them used to the idea, about 10 times , and then do the pallet thing to add the shafts, but I think its better to have a bit of weight, if it's too lightweight its a bit too bouncy and unstable, but your trainers probably had a bit of added wieght on the "cart" bit of the fake cart? I think we think on similar lines!