hey jimmy, yes that is a good idea - thats what i thought you meant. and that accident you mention is just the sort of thing i am talking about- the more you can do before the cart goes behind the cart the better, hence my wheel or pallet, i can just worry about me and the horse getting it right without worrying about expensive equipment, or heads being split open. thats why i do all of the other stuff first. glad you saw my joke, and yes i looked at and replied to you in private message, but i didnt think it sent to you, so will do it again. and weefoal, hi, that plastic tubing idea is i expect very similar to what i do, i use the wheel for a bit of weight, just to get them used to the idea, about 10 times , and then do the pallet thing to add the shafts, but i think its better to have a bit of weight, if it's too lightweight its a bit too bouncy and unstable, but your trainers probably had a bit of added wieght on the "cart" bit of the fake cart? i think we think on similar lines!