New driver-carriage & harness question

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New driver-carriage & harness question

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  • Horse carriage fifth wheel tightness
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    09-17-2013, 06:03 PM
Question New driver-carriage & harness question

So, I'm looking at this lovely restored phaeton/surrey tomorrow. I don't know a whole lot about driving, but I've been longing to train my horse since I drove a mini at camp many years ago
The following pics are of the phaeton. I'm rather confused about harnesses, and the one thing driving me nuts is traces! It seems they attach differently depending on the vehicle. Where do the traces go on this one?
So, what should I look for when looking at this carriage? And can you see from the pics where the traces will attach? I will be using this with a 14.3 horse. Also, what type of harness will go best with this type of carriage? Collar or breast harness? Does it really matter or just preference? The carriage has a SINGLE tree, so does that effect what type of harness I should use? It seems like with the collar the horses can't quite put their heads down to get a relaxed walk.

Not sure what the last pic is of. As I said, I don't know much at all right now! I'm going to get some books though. Anyways, any advice is appreciated!
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    09-17-2013, 06:58 PM
That is pretty cute, but may not be the ideal thing to learn to drive. Especially if you do not have a horse trained yet.

The traces attach to the white single tree that is on top of the shafts, in the top picture. It is turned sideways. The traces will need slots for this type of attachment. A ring on the end of the trace will do you no good. Some have both a ring and slots. Try to get traces that buckle in at the collar, otherwse they are difficult to adjust.

    09-17-2013, 07:05 PM
OK, I went back and looked at the pictures, and you REALLY want a carriage that is cut-under, so the front wheels go underneath the body!!!! This one is NOT, so if you turn a bit too sharply, the wheel is stopped by the body, and the entire thing TIPS!!

It is also very short, which exacerbates this.

    09-17-2013, 09:28 PM
Green Broke
I couldn't tell if was cut under or not. I thought it looked like it was, but I couldn't tell from the photos. It doesn't have the typical cut under body, but the wheels looked like they might go under the body.

But agree, cute, but not the best for a beginner cut under or not. I would never buy a vehicle that is not cut under. If your horse backs up even four steps and you can flip.

The last photo they are showing you the fifth wheel.
    09-17-2013, 11:14 PM
I'm a little confused about how to tell whether it's cut under or not? You say that the front wheels need to go under the body... I'm thinking like how a wheel fits in the wheel well of a car but that's not correct, right? Because there are many carriages that have the wheels not literally under the carriage but off to the side. So are you referring to whether or not the wheels actually connect underneath the to the body?
    09-18-2013, 03:50 AM
Green Broke
A cut under is where the wheels are able to go under the body of the carriage when it turns. It gives much more maneuverability to the carriage and more stability especially in turns.

See how this carriage has a area cut into the body to allow the wheels to go under the carriage when it turns.
The carriage you posted does not have this feature, but the front wheels, MIGHT fit under the body without this feature.
But as Greentree stated, probably not.

    09-18-2013, 03:52 AM
Green Broke
Without the cut under capability, in tight a turn, the wheels hit the box of the carriage and create a real tipping hazard.

The front wheel of the carriage you posted, might be small enough to fit under the box of the carriage, but now that I think about it the fithwheel on that carriage is not the proper fithwheel for a cutunder.
Fithwheels on a cutunder need to be round to allow for the greater movement of the wheels in turns. On the carriage you posted it is you shape.
    09-18-2013, 07:46 AM
Trust me, you do not want a carriage that is not cut under, and old buggies require regular maintenance, with old tools. There are leather coils in those hubs that have to be greased and replaced, or your wheel will seize and fall apart.

Your auto wheels are not attached to a straight axle, there are all sorts of tie- rod ends and steering parts, so the axle stays straight, and only the wheels turn in the wheel wells.

The piano box buggy also looks pony size, and would be too small for a 14.3 horse. Hard to tell, though with no perspective in the photo.

    09-18-2013, 05:55 PM
That is not a phaeton. Looks like a doctors buggy or something. It is very short so not sure what it is.

carriage, driving, harness

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