Are helmets Mandatory? - Page 5
 
 

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Are helmets Mandatory?

This is a discussion on Are helmets Mandatory? within the Endurance Riding forums, part of the Riding Horses category
  • Quote for helmets mandatory for teens
  • Fall off a horse law suit

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    05-06-2012, 11:00 AM
  #41
Banned
Helmets are traditionally a hot button topic on forums; sort of like rollkur or Natural Horsemanship. Strong opinions on both sides; neither likely to convince the other.

But I'd like to comment on several points raised during this thread.

Yes, the OP's first post merely asked if helments were mandatory in endurance events. However, you also commmented on helmets being uncomfortable, which kicked off a lot of the rest of the conversation. Threads don't drift off topic by themselves. That this thread turned into helmet vs. anti-helmet was as inevitable as the sun rising in the east.

While nobody likes to be lectured to; if you state what you reasonably know is a controversial position on a public message board, don't be surprised if a lecture follows.

"I can't be sued" is a gross oversimplification of the equine liability laws. Anyone can sue anybody for anything. How far they get, and how likely they are to prevail, does depend on local statute and precedent. My understanding is (and please, anyone with actual legal training, please correct me if I'm wrong) that none of the existing state equine liability laws protect you if the plaintiff alleges negligence. Horse spooks, rider falls and gets hurt, no liability. Horse spooks because barn owner drove a tractor by the ring where a beginner lesson is taking place, horses spook, rider falls and gets hurt - you may be liable because you were negligent. A reasonable person could predict that the tractor would spook the horses and beginners couldn't control a spooking horse.

Virginia's law says in part "shall not be liable for an injury to or death of a participant resulting from the *intrinsic* dangers of equine activities" (emphasis mine.) Intrinsic means the unpredicatability inherent in working with horses. It doesn't cover an instructor failing to tighten a girth or cinch, or putting someone on a horse that they reasonably could predict the rider can't control - that's negligence. It doesn't cover event organizers who allow events to continue in unsafe conditions.

Riders and professionals in any state need to understand their own's state statute, and exactly what it does and doesn't cover. It is not the blanket "Get out of jail free" card that people seem to think it is.
AnitaAnne and phantomhorse13 like this.
     
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    05-06-2012, 11:34 AM
  #42
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
I do not live in fear of either a lawsuit or severe brain trauma...

...If you walk behind my horse or fall off one and injure yourself you CANNOT sue me in the State of Texas or any organization that sponsors an event you are injured at. That I can assure you...

...Mildot and bsms when you present your opinions without lecturing people will listen. When you lecture you waste your energy spent on typing or talking because people no longer care about anything you post...
1 - You can be sued for anything, anywhere. How likely a given lawsuit is to succeed varies greatly. However, anyone who thinks an equine liability law gives them blanket protection from a successful lawsuit really OUGHT to read the law. In Texas, as in Arizona, it specifically does NOT cover willful acts of omission - and what that consists of depends on a judge or jury on any given day.

2 - A lecture is an logical presentation of facts meant to instruct someone in an area they do not know a lot about. I thank you for considering my comments a lecture, and hope mildot feels likewise. You are welcome.

But of course, you don't want a lecture...so why did you post a question?

Were you seeking sympathy, or emotional affirmation? What you got was a non-judgmental, fact-based response. I have not insulted you, called you names, or suggested your choice of headgear is wrong.

But if quoting the law on discussions involving the law bothers you, feel free to skip reading my future posts.

For example, from Texas:
"Plaintiff Steeg was injured while on a trail ride operated by defendant. The injury resulted from a saddle that slipped after plaintiffís horse ran away with him. The trial court granted defendantís motion for summary judgment on the ground that a slipping saddle is an inherent risk of equine activity under the Texas equine activity statute. In this opinion, the Court of Appeals reverses the decision of the trial court. The statute does not protect against defendantís negligence. There was sufficient evidence that the injury may have resulted from negligence to preclude summary judgment under the statute."
Steeg v

From Georgia:
Plaintiff Taylor was seriously injured when he attempted to mount a horse owned by the defendant. The horse was green broke, but plaintiff testified that defendant told him the horse was a good, rideable horse. The trial court granted summary judgment for the defendant, but in this opinion the Court of Appeals disagrees with that decision. The equine activity statute did not protect the defendant since the testimony established a factual issue whether the defendant made a proper effort to match horse with rider and the plaintiff could not be said to have assumed the risk of the accident if he was not give accurate information about the horse.
New Page 1

For anyone interested in the law & horses, I strongly recommend this site:

Equine Activity Laws
     
    05-06-2012, 10:55 PM
  #43
Trained
Wearing a helmet or not is my personal choice. I will not wear one I do not have to it is that simple.
For the record I don't wear any hats. I find them all uncomfortable.
I do not think that wearing a helmet is a controversial subject and only seems to be for those that insist e veryone wear one.
Lecturing someone about not wearing a helmet is a ridiculous waste of time.
I am thankful for the post that suggested a helmet that was comfortable.
As for the liability issue the chance of being sued successfully is slim to none.
The lawyer that handles this estate and the insurance agent are very certain that not only I but any horse owner in Texas is safe except in cases of extreme negligence.
Wearing a helmet or not has no bearing on matters of extreme negligence.
Therefore liabilty insurance at events or arenas would not be raised for not making helmets mandatory.
I asked the question to learn as much as I could about endurance racing and while reading the rules found nothing about helmets. Shalom
     
    05-07-2012, 12:10 AM
  #44
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
Wearing a helmet or not is my personal choice. I will not wear one I do not have to it is that simple.
For the record I don't wear any hats. I find them all uncomfortable.
I do not think that wearing a helmet is a controversial subject and only seems to be for those that insist e veryone wear one.
Lecturing someone about not wearing a helmet is a ridiculous waste of time.
I am thankful for the post that suggested a helmet that was comfortable.
As for the liability issue the chance of being sued successfully is slim to none.
The lawyer that handles this estate and the insurance agent are very certain that not only I but any horse owner in Texas is safe except in cases of extreme negligence.
Wearing a helmet or not has no bearing on matters of extreme negligence.
Therefore liabilty insurance at events or arenas would not be raised for not making helmets mandatory.
I asked the question to learn as much as I could about endurance racing and while reading the rules found nothing about helmets. Shalom
I had a wonderful post for this and suddenly - computer snafu!
I will try again...

I am not an official with AERC, but I did search the website, the only rule on helmets is they are required for juniors.

So that is the answer to your question.

I will add that I thought of this thread as I was riding my Rocky with my teenage girls. It is the first time in a very long time that I have given a second thought to wearing a helmet. I just put it on, just like my boots & gloves, just another piece of equipment I wear when I ride.

Some people ride in shorts and flip-flops. It sure seams strange to me, but I try not to judge. I don't think it is my place to do so. "Do not judge" is what I was brought up to believe.

The other thing I was brought up to believe, is not to ask anyone else to do something you are not willing to do. Another way, leading by example.

How could I expect my kids to wear something I won't? They used to fuss and complain at the begining when I bought them horses, but not anymore. They just put them on too. We do it right after putting on the saddle and before the bridle.

In the beastly humidity here, we finish riding covered with sweat, but no sun-burnt faces, there are always compromises in life!
dbarabians and calicokatt like this.
     
    05-07-2012, 12:19 AM
  #45
Weanling
Read through the whole thread and its just the same old debate. Everyone has their own op some make more sense than others but all in all I believe in freedom of choice, now if that prohibits me from riding in a certain event then so be it I can't ride, for anyone who pointed that simple point out that well you just can't ride in that event then!....... Lol thanks for pointing out the obvious. But for me I will just ride in what I can and do it how I chose to if that bothers others then oh well I don't go around walking on egg shells for others, and never will. If you like helmets then cool that's awesome! If you hate them and don't want to wear them cool that's awesome too ha ha. Keep in mind its your head and you only get one so use it wisely. I am rambling now so lets just get to the point here, FREEDOM OF CHOICE!
     
    05-07-2012, 12:24 AM
  #46
Trained
AnitaAnne, thanks for a rational post explaining your reasons for wearing a helmet.
I am looking at a couple of rides here in Texas and trying to learn as much about the sport as possible.
I last rode in an endurance ride in the mid 90's on a 16 year old gelding that Had never been on one and enjoyed it. It was only 25 miles but had a lot of fun.
Now that I am semi retired and have all these wonderful Arabians I am thinking about trying it again.
I often ride at least 10-15 miles once a week on my stallion and another mare. I think they would be great for it.
Like I said if I really like it and want to go to the Tevis then I could overlook the fact that helmets are required swallow my pride and wear one. Shalom
AnitaAnne likes this.
     
    05-07-2012, 12:24 AM
  #47
Started
PS - I don't like cowboy hats because they blow off all the time. Pain in the neck, but cute when you go out dancing!

Anyway, yes, the helmets can be comfortable, they are so lightweight now, and so many designs and colors too! I see more and more people out riding on trails with them. They can be very practical and fancy too.

You can chose not to wear a helmet according to the AERC rules, but you must be prepared to get some negative comments and questions, even if that is not fair. Most endurance riders are really nice people though, but better to be prepared.

Also, call ahead because it might be a rule to wear a helmet at the specific event, so you can make an informed choice what to do.
     
    05-07-2012, 12:32 AM
  #48
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbarabians    
AnitaAnne, thanks for a rational post explaining your reasons for wearing a helmet.
I am looking at a couple of rides here in Texas and trying to learn as much about the sport as possible.
I last rode in an endurance ride in the mid 90's on a 16 year old gelding that Had never been on one and enjoyed it. It was only 25 miles but had a lot of fun.
Now that I am semi retired and have all these wonderful Arabians I am thinking about trying it again.
I often ride at least 10-15 miles once a week on my stallion and another mare. I think they would be great for it.
Like I said if I really like it and want to go to the Tevis then I could overlook the fact that helmets are required swallow my pride and wear one. Shalom
You are welcome, but I like to think manners never go out of fashion

Arabs do outnumber most other breeds on the rides, sounds like yours are in good condition already. Enjoy the ride.
     
    05-07-2012, 12:38 AM
  #49
Weanling
[QUOTE=AnitaAnne;1488785]PS - I don't like cowboy hats because they blow off all the time. Pain in the neck, but cute when you go out dancing!QUOTE]


My cowboy hat doesnt fall off :P Get a good fitted one and you will wear it all the time riding! Nice shade for the face XD
     
    05-07-2012, 12:45 AM
  #50
Trained
Anita anne thanks once again.
I do not wear western hats either. I do however wear a lot of sunscreen.
In this Texas heat anything on your head is hot. I do not ride between 11 am and 4 pm mid may - mid Sept. When I have to to work cattle on horseback I may wear a ball cap for extra protection from the sun but only then.
I'm 52 and have a full head of hair with very little gray. I like to show it off. LOL Shalom
     

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