Achieving Collection? Hmm... - Page 3 - The Horse Forum

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post #21 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 01:32 AM
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Which is exactly what I have been battling out on my thread in the dressage section, that horse now are all front legs and nothing behind, that they are NOT collected, they cannot collect in that 'frame' enter rolkur debate here.
You're not telling me anything I don't know.

As for teaching, I'm simply giving an opinion and stating what I know. I'm not going out teaching people in real life, yes I've trained a couple of riders here and there, but in no way is that my passion. There's a difference between teaching, and stating points over the internet, the OP does not even have to look at anything I have said.

Anyway, whats with the raised hackles? We're arguing the same point.
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post #22 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
What level of experience do you have ShaNeighNeigh ?
I have ridden through PSG and have trained Grand Prix movements). I am a bronze and silver medalist.

I am now a working student for a well known A circuit trainer in the jumper world in California. (Training Dressage is Fun, Jumpers are my passion)
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post #23 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayty View Post
Which is exactly what I have been battling out on my thread in the dressage section, that horse now are all front legs and nothing behind, that they are NOT collected, they cannot collect in that 'frame' enter rolkur debate here.
You're not telling me anything I don't know.

As for teaching, I'm simply giving an opinion and stating what I know. I'm not going out teaching people in real life, yes I've trained a couple of riders here and there, but in no way is that my passion. There's a difference between teaching, and stating points over the internet, the OP does not even have to look at anything I have said.

Anyway, whats with the raised hackles? We're arguing the same point.
I was going to edit my post to add we are agreeing.

But darn forum wouldn't let me edit my post.

I do Hope the OP looks at your posts, you are very knowledgeable. We probably agree on the rollkur and how dressage today isn't really the classical dressage of yesterday.

Last edited by ShaNeighNeigh; 12-30-2009 at 01:44 AM. Reason: edited to add additional text
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post #24 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 01:42 AM
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deleted--- double post.
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post #25 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 02:50 AM
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Ok, truce :) Its funny how the internet can get things heated, when if you were talking it out face to face, you'd be agreeing!
Sounds like you've done a bit of everything, I'd love to do a little bit of jumping. I did it as a pony club kid, but my pony put me off big time when she started bolting after every jump then stopping dead. For a 10year old kid that's a bit daunting, getting flung over a ponys head at a million miles an hour. I haven't done much jumping since.
Never know, in the future I might be coming to you for jumping advice! Gotta find me a horse though!
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post #26 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 12:55 PM
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This might help some of you that would like to enter one of the longest arguments to do with horses.



http://www.equinestudies.org/true_co..._2008_pdf1.pdf
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post #27 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 03:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for your thoughts and opinions! I really do appreciate it. I'm the type of person that wants lots of critique because I love having something to work at in order to be the best rider I can be.

After reading everyone's replies, I've realized that I'm kind of on the right track but not really! :) Oh well. So now my question is for everyone who replied is:

What do I do now to get to collection?

Is it the chain on the Kimberwick that is having her back off the bit? (The chain is adjusted correctly.)

Sorry I don't have any conformation pictures of her! I know some of you had mentioned you would like to see conformation pictures.

Amber.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. ~Thomas Edison

Last edited by GeminiJumper; 12-30-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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post #28 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 07:30 PM
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Have you tried her in a snaffle? I'd much rather you had her in a snaffle to start out. It's a kinder bit, and IMO a horse should go kindly in a snaffle before being moved into a harsher bit- flatwork/dressage of course, jumping is different I assume!

You don't want to aim directly at collection. People who do so usually end up pulling the head in and kicking, to get a really slow trot with a jamemd in head and yell out 'woohoo I've got collection!'.
Take things in slow steps, so first, you want her to react immediately off your aids. You put your leg on, she needs to move off it immediately. If she doesn't, she's not sensitive enough on the basics to even attempt looking at collection.
You need to have her soft and relaxed through all transitions and changes of rein.
Does she know any lateral work? Leg yield and shoulder in particuarly. These are great for lightening the shoulders-forehand and starting to loosen the back.
I also love counter canter to get the horse REALLY using it's back. Once you have a consistant, soft working canter, start riding her down the 3/4 line and leg yield her back to the track in canter. Gradually start riding shallow loops in canter and once she's comfortable with this, you can start counter canter on circle/turns etc.

MILLIONS of transitions every ride. Never ride more than 10 strides at the same tempo. So within a gait, ask for a little more length of stride, then a little less, a little more etc. etc. This keeps their brain ticking over, and will engage the hind legs and soften the back.

Collection isn't something that happens overnight. When I start with a horse it is at least a month of constant work until I even contemplate thinking of colelction itself. All the other work is just the lead up to it.
You need to have a horse that is consistant in walk trot and canter with a loose back, engaged hind end and is happy to bend, flex and move forwards, backwards and sideways with the horse happy to take a contact. From that, you can then start demanding the horse shift a little more weight onto its hind quarters and then you start thinking collection.

One thing to think about is that yes ultimately all your work is aiming at collection, but having a horses head down is not collection, and collection does not comeone day when you decide you want to 'learn' how to do it. Colletion also comes in degrees as the horse builds strength and confidence to transfer his weight.
The horses you see competing preliminary and novice are not in collection, they are performing 'working' gaits in which they are soft, relaxed and engaged- the step which leads to collection ;)

Sorry that I havent been thorough in my help here, it is near impossible to describe, explain and teach collection over the internet. You really do need a good dressage ho will not just tell you to use a gadget to pull the horses head in. We can generalise on the internet, but achieving certain degrees of education in a horse varies greatly between horses, they all react in different ways and you need to adjust your method in accordance to this. Hence why it is best to have 'eyes on the ground' who can help you in the moment.
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post #29 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeminiJumper View Post
Is it the chain on the Kimberwick that is having her back off the bit? (The chain is adjusted correctly.)
Just what kind of kimberwick are you using. Jointed or unjointed?
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post #30 of 32 Old 12-30-2009, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Kayty. I will definitely start working on all that when I head back to school. The school horses go on a Christmas break as well as us, so when I go back, I'll go back a bit earlier and start working her; getting her back in shape. Concentrating on lots of transitions, becoming light off my leg, lateral work and loosening up her back. Correct?

Amber.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. ~Thomas Edison
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