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Ahhh! Why??? Help!!!!!

4K views 22 replies 16 participants last post by  mom2pride 
#1 ·
Ok so I just started riding english this year. I consider myself a pretty good rider, but I can not get this posting thing down. I can feel my diagonals, but seriously is posting really that hard?

Posting is just so much work for me. I can't even make it around the ring without falling apart. I ride a lot and I even practice posting in my western saddle which seems to be easier for some reason. I also think that I rely to much on my stirrups while posting. So I tried posting without them and felt so akward and I felt bad for my horse so I quit.

Is it because I don't the muscles? Is it my saddle? Stirrup legnth? I just don't know.

I take lessons regularly both english and western. My friend mentioned taking some jumping lessons to get more into shape. I guess is there any exercises or anything to help me out. I'm on the market for a saddle as well. Need something really wide. I know a lot of people like the close contact but there doesn't seem to be much there to hold me in lol.

Any ideas?

I can post pics if that would be helpful too.
 
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#3 ·
It very well might be your saddle. If it doesn't sit level on the horse's back, it could be pitching you just enough forward or backward to inhibit your posting. I'm not a saddle fitting expert, but google a few such sites so you can better evaluate if the saddle is sitting level on his back. Also, have someone watch you sitting on it with your horse standing still. With your feet out of the strirrups. a properly fitting saddle will result in your head, shoulders, legs and feet all lining up. (again please google for proper alignment pics) If you do go shopping for a new saddle, find a store who can fit the rider with a good saddle as well as the horse. A propery fitting saddle will line up your parts naturally. Sit in as many saddles as you can. You'll be surprised to find that not only do you sit a little differently in every one, but that each one will again feel different once it's on your horse's back. It's a very frustrating process, but finding the correct saddle for both of you is very important.

If it's not the saddle fit, all I can suggest is to have someone lunge you so can forget about steering and be able to concentrate on just posting. Posting's one of those things that clicks once you get sufficient leg strength, and get the rhythm down, it just clicks. Try not to overthink it. Just let the horse's motion push you up out of the saddle. It's a hips/thighs forward motion, not up/down. Once you get it, posting without stirrups is by far the best way to build leg strength.

good luck
 
#9 ·
If it's not the saddle fit, all I can suggest is to have someone lunge you so can forget about steering and be able to concentrate on just posting. Posting's one of those things that clicks once you get sufficient leg strength, and get the rhythm down, it just clicks. Try not to overthink it. Just let the horse's motion push you up out of the saddle. It's a hips/thighs forward motion, not up/down. Once you get it, posting without stirrups is by far the best way to build leg strength.

good luck
Thanks I will definetely trying the longing thing. I have watched some saddle fitting video for english and western. Them pain free videos or whatever. I'm just starting to learn all the english stuff, like using risers and what not.

I don't really like close contact saddles, and they are considered to be for more experienced riders. When I do ride in one I have difficulty because I'm not used to it. If you aren't in shape or have good muscles in your legs, the close contact saddle will be more difficult for you (due to the use of your legs when riding in one). It also might be because you aren't used to an english saddle quite yet?
Would an all purpose be better?

Are your stirrups really short or really long? A good stirrup length is where the bottom of the stirrup touches your ankle. Everyone else covered the other things it could be. Posting can take a while to get used to, also.
I think that is about where they are at. I will make sure tho.

Your horse is probably just jogging around and it is very very tough to post a jog, get a more forward and impulsive trot and continue with your no stirrup work. If all else fails, just sit the trot and do dressage :P
Haha that is try about my dun gelding! I have a paint filly tho and she has a goregous trot! It is hard to try to post and use my leg to keep them going nicely. I think that is most of my problem. My gelding id mostly western type horse so trying to get him to extend is a lot of work. My filly is a 3 year old so she can't decide what speed she wants to go. So my horses defenitley don't help.

My gelding would suck at dressage. That would be fun tho.

Just out of curiosity, what breed are you riding English?

:wink:
Quarter Horse and a Paint. So stock types mostly.

As it stands, I'll see what I can do to help without seeing what's really going on.


.
Thanks I'm going to post some pics and I do have a video but its old. It was from like when I first started a few months back.
 
#4 ·
I don't really like close contact saddles, and they are considered to be for more experienced riders. When I do ride in one I have difficulty because I'm not used to it. If you aren't in shape or have good muscles in your legs, the close contact saddle will be more difficult for you (due to the use of your legs when riding in one). It also might be because you aren't used to an english saddle quite yet?
 
#6 ·
Your horse is probably just jogging around and it is very very tough to post a jog, get a more forward and impulsive trot and continue with your no stirrup work. If all else fails, just sit the trot and do dressage :P
 
#7 ·
I would definitely look into your saddle fit. Pics would really help :). Just out of curiosity, what breed are you riding English? My mutt large pony was cake to post, but I could not sit him. I feel no shame, my instructor who had competed heavily and successfully in dressage for many years couldn't sit him, and she asked how I stayed on so well at his trot, lol. My sis' foundation bred QH I have a really hard time posting, because he is so darn smooth at the trot, even when he's forward and moving correctly for hunt seat. There's just not enough "feel-able" rhythm and bounce there to get a solid post going.

I would look into your saddle fit, and maybe try some English lessons on a "schoolmaster" with a really stable trot, that way you can get the mechanics down in the best scenario, then apply it to a less than ideal hunt seat trot. :wink:
 
#8 ·
I agree with Anabel on getting your horse moving. I also agree with whoever it was that mentioned longe lessons (I believe it was myboypuck).

Now, the fact that you are having so much trouble with posting makes me think you're doing it wrong. The biggest problem for riders is that they try to work against the horse instead of working with them. When you try to work against your horse when posting... bad things happen. Which sounds like what is going on now.

Pics would help, but a video would really be so much better.

As it stands, I'll see what I can do to help without seeing what's really going on.

First of all, check your saddle fit (both for you and the horse). Second of all, check your stirrup length (irons should fall approximately at the middle of your ankle bone).

Now, if at all possible, get someone to put you on the longe line. If that's not possible, and you have a trust worthy horse, tie your reins in a knot and ride with your hands on your hips. If that's not possible, simply try to rely on your hands as little as possible.

It's harder than I imagined to explain posting (as I've been mainly going off of feel), so I'm going to use "The Principles of Riding" published by the German National Equestrian Federation to help me explain (get the book, it's a must have).

To summarize: When rising, the rider's weight is pushed out of the saddle by the horse's stride. Your feet need to stay below your center of gravity (below your belly button, between your hips), which means your knees need to stay bent and elastic, with your heels the lowest part of the foot. It's wrong to actively try and rise, work with your horse, not against.

The lower leg should remain on, but not clinging. When you sit, give a positive leg and weight aid to push your horse through the back into the bridle, increasing suppleness and elasticity of the gait.

The upper body should remain upright. Leaning slightly forward is better for maintaining fluidity than rising stiffly, especially when riding with shorter stirrups. But be careful not to tip forward, push the seat out behind, stiffen the knees, ankles or hips (causing them to rotate out), or lose contact with the horse.

Misfit back in: So that pretty much gives an overview. Additionally, rising trot isn't so much going 'up' as it is shifting your weight 'forward downwards' by releasing the knee/hip. Sally Swift has a really good way of explaining it, but pretty much every time you post you are rolling forward onto your thigh, and releasing your knee/hip down towards the ground.
 
#10 ·
First of all make sure that you are in the correct position. I have a lot of students who started off western and switched to english and almost all of them have a few position changes they need to make. Most of them want to ride with their leg out in front of them a little, in more of a "chair seat". That makes posting much more difficult since it's harder to get "out" of your saddle. There should be a vertical line from your hip bone straight down to your heel. As someone said, make sure that your stirrups are the correct length (when your legs are out of the stirrups and hanging relaxed on your horse's side, the bottom of the iron should hit the middle of your ankle bone). Make sure that you are riding with the iron on the ball of your foot (the squishy part behind your toes) and not too far back.

Your saddle may be making it more difficult for you, not because it's a close contact but because some brands do not put you in the correct position. I completely disagree that close contact saddles are for more experienced riders. I start every kid in a CC, even the kind without knee rolls and they do just fine. I personally hate AP saddles but that's your call. Use whatever fits your horse and puts your leg in the right place.

Anabel made a great point about making sure that your horse is going forward with enough impulsion! It's hard to post a jog!

I would really disagree with whoever told you that you should try jumping to get more in shape! you should already be in shape with a solid leg before you attempt any kind of jumping. It's hard to do well (meaning without hurting your horse by hitting them in the mouth or slamming them in the back because your position isn't strong or balanced enough) and posting should definitely be a basic you have down pat before you attempt it.

Videos and pictures would be really helpful for us to give you more specific pointeres!
 
#12 ·
First of all make sure that you are in the correct position. I have a lot of students who started off western and switched to english and almost all of them have a few position changes they need to make. Most of them want to ride with their leg out in front of them a little, in more of a "chair seat". That makes posting much more difficult since it's harder to get "out" of your saddle. There should be a vertical line from your hip bone straight down to your heel. As someone said, make sure that your stirrups are the correct length (when your legs are out of the stirrups and hanging relaxed on your horse's side, the bottom of the iron should hit the middle of your ankle bone). Make sure that you are riding with the iron on the ball of your foot (the squishy part behind your toes) and not too far back.

Your saddle may be making it more difficult for you, not because it's a close contact but because some brands do not put you in the correct position. I completely disagree that close contact saddles are for more experienced riders. I start every kid in a CC, even the kind without knee rolls and they do just fine. I personally hate AP saddles but that's your call. Use whatever fits your horse and puts your leg in the right place.

Anabel made a great point about making sure that your horse is going forward with enough impulsion! It's hard to post a jog!

I would really disagree with whoever told you that you should try jumping to get more in shape! you should already be in shape with a solid leg before you attempt any kind of jumping. It's hard to do well (meaning without hurting your horse by hitting them in the mouth or slamming them in the back because your position isn't strong or balanced enough) and posting should definitely be a basic you have down pat before you attempt it.

Videos and pictures would be really helpful for us to give you more specific pointeres!

Thanks. I don't think I have any of the chair seat things going on. I think all those things you mentioned are bad in western riding as well so I don't do that. I do think my stirrups were a little to short.

It seems that ones with no knee rolls or anything give me the most problems. I seriously can not post in them. My cheap little saddle that I'm riding in the photos actually works really well for me. I rode today and had no problem posting in it what so ever. The thing is it really is a very cheap saddle and was fine when I was showing at open shows. I'm going to be showing at some breed shows now and really think I should find something at least some what of a nicer quality.

I actually just tried one of those M. Toulouse Saddles from a tack shop and it was took bulky with the calve pads and knee rolls and what not.

Also I don't my friend was telling me to go out and jump. I think was thinking that if I took some lessons with a jumping instructor to help get balanced and what not. I don't think any good instructor would let some one jump before they were ready anyways.

Well here is my cheap little saddle haha :)


Oh I found a video as well but its a show in dust cloud and my camera man kinda sucks. I will try to upload that up tonight.

Thanks again everyone.
 

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#11 ·
Here are some photos. They are probably not the best for evalutating but its something.

Please do laugh at the ones with the my whole outfit on and jeans lol! I won a photo Shoot thing and I totally forgot my breechs lol! My horse wasn't cooperating that day neither. She is a baby tho so can't get made at her.
 

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#15 ·
I'm sure everyone posted everything I could think of, but I felt I needed to add something

Jumping should only be started when you can securely walk, trot and canter in an english saddle (including posting). Jumping is something you do AFTER you have the proper muscles, not to gain them. It's a pet peeve of mine seeing people who have ridden only a few months/1 year jumping. It drives me crazy! I know you case is different because you have already been riding western, but still
 
#16 ·
Yea I understand what everyone is saying. I guess I maybe should have worded it different. She advised me to take lessons with a jumping instructor that would push to ride proper, then helping me get into shape. I have been taking lessons with just pleasure people. I don't have a horse that would be competitive jumping so I wouldn't really get into it that much but I would like to learn the fundamentals.

Thanks again for your thoughts tho.
 
#17 ·
practice doing two point stirrup less a lot. do a lot stirrup less, because if your legs aren't strong enough to post, then you'll have a difficult time staying on a horse thats bucking or spooking or taking off.
 
#18 ·
Looking at your pics, the first problem I see is that your heels need to come WAYYYYYY down. Right now, not only are you not pushing them down, they are actually higher than your toe. That means you have NO support for your lower leg...no wonder it is hard for you to trot! Your stirrups are your base of support and to use then correctly, you need to let your weight sink down and into your heels. They need to be at least an inch or two below your toe.

The second problem is that your leg is actually a little far back (not a lot, but enough). When your leg is too far back, not only does that mess up your aids to your horse and make it harder for you to encourage good forward propulsion, it also undermines your balance and support, again making it difficult to trot and even to sit properly upright. That's why when a rider jumps and they let their legs slip backward, their upper body falls forward and they can lose their balance. I actually think that if you fixed your heel, your leg will naturally shift forward into a better position.

My thought is that your saddle is on the small side. Your knees are almost coming off the front and your seat is actually on the very back of the saddle. That is forcing you into a somewhat tilted forward position that, along with your heels, is probably contributing to your leg position. One that is an inch or two larger would likely fit you better.

Coming to your upper body, it is tipping a little forward, about in proportion to how far your leg is too far back. So, you fix your heel, your leg will fix and I suspect your torso will follow. So now, voila, you'll find that you are vertical and sitting on your seat bones, your knees will stop pinching and you'll be able to post from your legs, rather than, as I suspect you are doing now, from your knees. That should make the trot much, much easier to post. Isn't it amazing how one little thing, in your case your heels, can throw everything else off?

Finally, roll your shoulders up, back and down. Think about making your shoulder blades touch. They're kind of hunching up and rolling forward in a couple of the pics, although they look pretty good in the top one.

I suspect that when you get to this position, you will find that close contact saddles suddenly are much easier to use. In fact, I would almost suggest you use a close contact without knee rolls, because that will take the crutch that is the knee rolls away and force you to make sure your legs are in the right place.

Hope that helps. I know it's a lot, but basically, just concentrate on getting your heels down, down, down and the rest will likely follow. :D
 
#19 ·
Thank you soo much pooh! That made sense. i have been working on my upper body, keeping my shoulders back and not leaning forward. I do this when I ride western as well. I do agree that my saddle is to small and it is such a weird design. I have been test driving several saddle since I posted this and I am doing much better. I found a collegiate that I LOVE but it doesn't fit my mare the best. It fits my gelding and they both moved out beautifully in it but I'm worried it might be a tad to narrow at the withers on her. So I'm going to try to find one like it with a wide tree or go back to the drawing board. She is only 3 tho so its hard because, she is going to change so much as well. I was thinking about getting one with a changable gullet system.

So for flat HUS classes should I get a close contact saddle or all purpose. I think I see more people use cc but just curious if it was a preference or one was more proper.
 
#20 ·
Stirrup length.
Sit on the saddle and let legs drop down.
Point toes parallel to body of horse
Turn toes up so that heel is down.
Pop stirrup iron over foot and adjust stirrup length to fit.
Stirru[p bar should be under ball of foot
Make sure both stirrup leathers are equal length.

At the beginning this length might feel too long because the muscles may not have developed in which case take the leathers up a notch or two. But too short will also feel uncomfortable. Suck it and see,
It is important not to have the stittups too long at the beginning otherwise the learner rider will lose the iron off the foot.

The muscles which lift you are the under thigh muscles - which for a non english rider will take a little time to develop. A western rider is taught to put weight down into the stirrups - the english rider eventually puts only enough to stabilize the foot in the stirrup iron. The posting action comes off the upward thrust of the horse's back , aided by a little push from the under thigh muscle. The rider's knee is is the focal point of the movement. For practice sit in an upright chair and try posting - you should feel the muscles moving. It is wrong to thrust off the ball of the foot but at the beginning you might find yourself doing just that.
When you are ready try trotting up a slight incline - it feels easier. You'll probably get back ache at the beginning but it will come right with practice.
Buy riding breeches with a padded inside knee. Jeans have a seam which annoys
Getting the length of stirrup right is the key.
Practice, practice - if you can with a knowledgeable friend lunging the horse at the beginning
Tie a shoelace loosely across the saddle at the front where there should be two rings either side of the wither. Slip your thumb under the lace to give help with balancing. Make sure your thumb doesn't get jammed. At the beginning always trot holding the reins with two hands.
 
#21 ·
Ride a ReAlLy ReAlLy ReAlLy bouncy horse you'll be a natural. ;) Also your heels are probably your biggest problem, your trying to perch on your toe to push your self out of the saddle, not going to work. Have someone show you the two point and keep doing it until you can't anymore (probably won't take tooo long). Then break, practice again. Do this at the walk then move onto the trot. Then practice the two point without using the crest for balance, repeat previous steps over and over. Being able to get in and out of a two point postion is very similar to posting, its just doing it over and over again to the rythm of the trot. Once you truly sink into your heel and realize your foot won't fall out of the stirrup even with all your weight in your heel, you will find it much easier to post. If i were trying to post by standing on my toe I doubt I could do it, and probably not for long, I would think your using different muscles to do that then the ones your supposed to, will have to try it though to find out. Anywho, borrowing the bounciest horse in the barn would be my first guess at getting you to snap into it.
 
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